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Post by dave1 on Jun 13, 2022 8:46:03 GMT
Hi Has anyone got any instructions for the depot frame and if possible photos I'm writing about depots on LT well hoping to.
TIA
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Post by Nortube on Jun 14, 2022 10:53:09 GMT
I've never seen any official instructions for the frame operation (I suppose there may have been something very basic in the NL Sectional Appendix, but I can't remember).
Depends what information you want. If you want technical details, then I have nothing. If you want general operation information (e.g. what the levers did, how the frame was used etc.) then I can give you that as I've worked the frame in the past as a Guard Panel Shunter. I should also have some photos taken of the frame and area in the shunting cabin, but am not sure that I'll be able to find them. I do have one on the PC that has a more general view inside the cabin that includes the frame and should show all the details. I'll see if I can find it.
It may take a couple of days. Chase me up if I forget!
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Post by dave1 on Jun 15, 2022 5:44:41 GMT
I've never seen any official instructions for the frame operation (I suppose there may have been something very basic in the NL Sectional Appendix, but I can't remember).
Depends what information you want. If you want technical details, then I have nothing. If you want general operation information (e.g. what the levers did, how the frame was used etc.) then I can give you that as I've worked the frame in the past as a Guard Panel Shunter. I should also have some photos taken of the frame and area in the shunting cabin, but am not sure that I'll be able to find them. I do have one on the PC that has a more general view inside the cabin that includes the frame and should show all the details. I'll see if I can find it.
It may take a couple of days. Chase me up if I forget!
NT, General operation on how the frame was used and what the levers did is really great. Any photos would also be great look forward to hearing from you. That will help me with what I am writing. |
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Post by Nortube on Jun 16, 2022 16:10:00 GMT
OK, will sort out (I'm a bit behind at the moment :-) )
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Post by dave1 on Jun 17, 2022 7:34:35 GMT
OK, will sort out (I'm a bit behind at the moment :-) ) NT, Okay thanks. |
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Post by Nortube on Jun 26, 2022 18:30:01 GMT
Sorry for the delay I have some part photos of the frame taken in 1975. At some point, they were later scanned to the PC and the quality is not as good as it could be. They were not specifically aimed at the frame and so don't show the frame as a complete stand-alone item. I've also had to crop the photos to remove people that were in them. The photos do give a general feel as to what the frame was like - a 6 lever standard ground frame. A second photo shows the upper part of the frame when the levers were relabelled (same text) after Alstholm took over the depot running. I have also added a diagram that I had created for something else, and amended to include the depot frame point numbers (in green). The diagram shows the point and road numbers that will be referred to in the notes that I am currently working on, which will give a good explanation of how the frame worked with regards train movements. I hope to post that within the next few days.
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Post by dave1 on Jun 27, 2022 6:22:27 GMT
Sorry for the delay I have some part photos of the frame taken in 1975. At some point, they were later scanned to the PC and the quality is not as good as it could be. They were not specifically aimed at the frame and so don't show the frame as a complete stand-alone item. I've also had to crop the photos to remove people that were in them. The photos do give a general feel as to what the frame was like - a 6 lever standard ground frame. A second photo shows the upper part of the frame when the levers were relabelled (same text) after Alstholm took over the depot running. I have also added a diagram that I had created for something else, and amended to include the depot frame point numbers (in green). The diagram shows the point and road numbers that will be referred to in the notes that I am currently working on, which will give a good explanation of how the frame worked with regards train movements. I hope to post that within the next few days.
<button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button>
<button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button>
NT, Thanks for this very interesting am I right they still use this today? Shows how the working can't wait for notes and no problem waiting thank you. |
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Post by Nortube on Jul 5, 2022 22:25:24 GMT
The frame was still in use up to a few years ago (may just have contacts rather than rodding if the lever-controlled crossovers have been motorised). There is no reason for it not to still be in use.
Haven't forgotten the notes  Am doing some in-depth notes that are currently pages of scribble that I'm doing while running around, but are almost finished and I hope to get them typed up and posted by the end of the week. |
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Post by dave1 on Jul 6, 2022 9:48:05 GMT
The frame was still in use up to a few years ago (may just have contacts rather than rodding if the lever-controlled crossovers have been motorised). There is no reason for it not to still be in use.
Haven't forgotten the notes  Am doing some in-depth notes that are currently pages of scribble that I'm doing while running around, but are almost finished and I hope to get them typed up and posted by the end of the week. NT, I read on the web that depots were to have all powered points perhaps this is just those points that were hand worked and like you say the ones that were controlled by the frame still are albeit now power operated. Whenever you are ready no problem. The depot which was mentioned on online was London Road. Found a reference www.fenixrailsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/TieFenlock400.pdf Seems like Morden went in 2004 and Golders Green went in 2006. Sorry the link does not work when I insert it okay otherwise. |
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Post by Nortube on Jul 6, 2022 19:55:49 GMT
I see that makes a reference to '32 point ends'. Without going through the diagram to check, that would about tie in with all the outside handworked points that led to the depot north and south fans (1 - 34 roads). The change to electric operation sometimes resulted in damage to the points when a train passed over them in a trailing position when the route had not been set.
Whilst, officially, outside handworked points should always have been set by the ground shunter for the route in a trailing position, they never were. This meant that the first pair of wheels of a train pushed them over with a clunk as the train passed over them. It was never a problem, because speed in the depot was 5mph and this was rarely exceeded by trains going into service .
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Post by dave1 on Jul 7, 2022 16:12:16 GMT
I see that makes a reference to '32 point ends'. Without going through the diagram to check, that would about tie in with all the outside handworked points that led to the depot north and south fans (1 - 34 roads). The change to electric operation sometimes resulted in damage to the points when a train passed over them in a trailing position when the route had not been set.
Whilst, officially, outside handworked points should always have been set by the ground shunter for the route in a trailing position, they never were. This meant that the first pair of wheels of a train pushed them over with a clunk as the train passed over them. It was never a problem, because speed in the depot was 5mph and this was rarely exceeded by trains going into service .
That's interesting although it does not mention who controls the points. I was thinking if trains could just push the points over like you say. |
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Post by Nortube on Jul 11, 2022 9:48:41 GMT
Tied in with the electrification of the handworked depot points, route setup came into use where a depot staff member* would set up the individual route in and out of the depot fans (1 - 34 roads up to the shunters cabin) on a computer and radio to talk to the drivers diving them instructions to draw up or what road to stable on. From what I recall, the frame was still used in the normal way (the points it controlled may have been electrified, I can't remember), the computer routing just replacing the manual setting up of the routes.
I assume that the same thing applied at Golders Green.
* After Alsthom took over the depot, there were no shunters as such. Suitably qualified depot staff would drive trains within the depot area up to exit shunt signals Y28 / Y30. Trained depot staff could operate the cabin. I don't know if they had a specific title. |
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Post by dave1 on Jul 12, 2022 13:39:11 GMT
Tied in with the electrification of the handworked depot points, route setup came into use where a depot staff member* would set up the individual route in and out of the depot fans (1 - 34 roads up to the shunters cabin) on a computer and radio to talk to the drivers diving them instructions to draw up or what road to stable on. From what I recall, the frame was still used in the normal way (the points it controlled may have been electrified, I can't remember), the computer routing just replacing the manual setting up of the routes.
I assume that the same thing applied at Golders Green.
* After Alsthom took over the depot, there were no shunters as such. Suitably qualified depot staff would drive trains within the depot area up to exit shunt signals Y28 / Y30. Trained depot staff could operate the cabin. I don't know if they had a specific title. NT, Thanks another piece of the jigsaw. Going by what you say about Morden and as it was the same company they must have done something similar at Golders Green. |
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Post by Nortube on Jul 19, 2022 14:52:06 GMT
I finally finished the frame notes - sorry for the length of time it took What was originally going to be a short note detailing the frame has turned into a set of notes regarding the operation of Morden depot from a shunters point of view in 1995. The notes are a little rough and could be improved on.
Because of the length of notes, I've saved them as a PDF which can be viewed or downloaded below:
The Carto Metro map shows the track layout of Morden depot, including point numbers For anybody who haasn't seen the map, whilst it can be viewed online, for general reference and extreme zoom, it's best to download the PDF version. Click on link to go to the CM page, London, then right click on the PDF and then SAVE AS to download the PDF
Carto Metro page:
cartometro.com/metro-london/?r=cmf
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drico
Station Inspector
Thank you driver, off clips.
Posts: 202
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Post by drico on Jul 22, 2022 6:27:16 GMT
Just got round to reading this excellent set of notes on the operation of Morden Depot, well done “Nortube”.
Did Golders Green Depot have a shunters Ground Frame ?
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Am doing some in-depth notes that are currently pages of scribble that I'm doing while running around, but are almost finished and I hope to get them typed up and posted by the end of the week. 
Am doing some in-depth notes that are currently pages of scribble that I'm doing while running around, but are almost finished and I hope to get them typed up and posted by the end of the week. 
