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Post by GentlemanJim on Jul 26, 2014 23:33:26 GMT
Classic quotes taken from the BBC reporting page:
But a LU spokesman said: "The train was static at a platform when the debris came down and fell into the pit, not on the track."
I think you need more training or another job as I think you'll find the track is above the pit and always has been.
Phil Hufton, London Underground's Chief Operating Officer, said: "At no time was there any danger to passengers."
Er, excuse me Phil but that's the biggest load of nonsense I've ever read (well maybe not, Good Service comes to mind) there was ALWAYS a danger to passengers but once again you got away with it by the skin of your teeth.
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Post by hellocontrol on Jul 27, 2014 7:04:48 GMT
GJ you are right there are so many places where things are going wrong or about to that those that go round checking can not keep up and some day it will be more serious, they have so far got away by the skin of their teeth.
Phil Hufton what a comment to make typical of senior management.
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Post by railtechnician on Jul 27, 2014 7:17:15 GMT
Classic quotes taken from the BBC reporting page: But a LU spokesman said: "The train was static at a platform when the debris came down and fell into the pit, not on the track."I think you need more training or another job as I think you'll find the track is above the pit and always has been. Phil Hufton, London Underground's Chief Operating Officer, said: "At no time was there any danger to passengers."
Er, excuse me Phil but that's the biggest load of nonsense I've ever read (well maybe not, Good Service comes to mind) there was ALWAYS a danger to passengers but once again you got away with it by the skin of your teeth. It seems to me that LUL will never learn! Treating people like mushrooms is nothing more than dishonest. Too many people seem worried about their derrieres, never admitting to anything. It is a disease that riddles LUL to such an extent that I'm in no doubt that such is taught at management training school as a management technique. Telling it exactly as it is, is the honest approach to any such incident even it it may cause embarassment within the organisation. Fobbing off the media with half truths and untruths is far worse than simply telling the truth, saying "we don't yet know" or simply "there are a number of possible causes" etc. Obviously as no-one wants to lose face by admitting that something went wrong or that what occurred and why is unclear, leads to speculation but that will happen anyway because the track (no pun intended) record has long been one of misinformation in the first instance. LUL mouthpieces are excellent at spouting rubbish, as anyone who uses the Underground should know, it is a dangerous environment at all times. Despite all the safeguards that are in place things can and do go wrong and always will, there is nothing wrong in honesty even if it causes embarassment and even if that embarassment is far worse than that caused by being economical with the truth. The real strength of any organisation is vested in its ability to handle reverses in fortune efficiently and effectively in a professional way thereby maintaining a level of respect even if honesty tarnishes the image. The truth is that the LUL image is not only tarnished but also somewhat rusty, it really is time for the management to start using some spit and polish. The media of course is a business that needs to sell news and so speculation and sensationalism are key to remaining in business. Like politicians and other organisations LUL is very good at putting its foot in its mouth especially when releasing statements of one kind of another. I don't blame the media at all because they are spoon fed when it would be so easy to starve them into more serious journalism by being honest with them. |
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Post by metrailway on Jul 27, 2014 8:08:53 GMT
I found those statements bizzare to say the least. I presume LU are in denial regarding the seriousness of the incident.
There have been incidents on the mainline with loose debris but at no time would Network Rail or the TOC put out a dismissive statement like "At no time was there any danger to passengers."
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Post by Nortube on Jul 27, 2014 9:59:07 GMT
Going by the descrption (train was stopped and the masonry fell into the pit), it would seem that the masonry was possibly from the headwall or tailwall fascia. It's hard to tell by looking at the picture, but going by the shape and thickness is does look like decoration. If it did come from the head / tailwall or even from the trackside wall, then there wouldn't have been a danger to passengers. However, if the train was moving, masonry dropping onto the moving train from the head / tailwall could be deflected and hit passengers on the platform. Likewise if masonry fell from the tailwall just as the train hit the platform, it could be deflected onto passengers on the platform. Of course, if it hit the fromt of the train at that exact moment, the driver could also be at risk. although the windscreen may protect them. So, I suppose that the statement "At no time was there any danger to passengers." could be true if "time" meant the precise second the masonry fell. Of course, if it had happened a few seconds earlier or later, then he may have had to modify his statement  Timing is everything! "It was found to be safe to resume services and the damage will be repaired overnight during engineering hours." Get out the Polyfilla! |
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Post by class345 on Jul 27, 2014 10:31:38 GMT
I've been told the piece is half a car long and as of last night was still in the pit on the WB platform.
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Post by Nortube on Jul 27, 2014 10:56:46 GMT
Two packets of Polyfilla then!
It's a long while since I've been to Mile End so I'm not sure of the exact platform lengths there and the shape of the platform area. I know there is cross-platform interchange between the District and Circle. If it is half a car long, (i.e. laying in the pit for a half car length), then it's probably not from the head / tailwall as they are at right angles to the track and so any rubble would be in a large heap rather than spread out.
There is very little detail given in the article. If it is the equivalent of one pice half a car long and it fell directly into the pit, then it can only have come from the ceiling above the pit. If it was from the track side wall, I'd have expected it to be piled up over the pozzy rail as well, but the picture doesn't show that (althought it's pnly a smalll area in the photo). If it was half a car long and it only fell in the pit, then this means that there is at least a half car gap between the head / tail wall and the front / rear of the train.
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Post by GentlemanJim on Jul 27, 2014 11:22:32 GMT
Two packets of Polyfilla then! It's a long while since I've been to Mile End so I'm not sure of the exact platform lengths there and the shape of the platform area. I know there is cross-platform interchange between the District and Circle. If it is half a car long, (i.e. laying in the pit for a half car length), then it's probably not from the head / tailwall as they are at right angles to the track and so any rubble would be in a large heap rather than spread out. There is very little detail given in the article. If it is the equivalent of one pice half a car long and it fell directly into the pit, then it can only have come from the ceiling above the pit. If it was from the track side wall, I'd have expected it to be piled up over the pozzy rail as well, but the picture doesn't show that (althought it's pnly a smalll area in the photo). If it was half a car long and it only fell in the pit, then this means that there is at least a half car gap between the head / tail wall and the front / rear of the train. The picture isn't clear at all but looking at the masonry they're fairly hefty chunks. There's very little room either end of the 8 cars if berthed properly, my memory is a little faded but I do remember getting out of the 'M' door to check the Tripcock, it was bent 45deg and failed the Tester at STR. I think I was just in the tunnel. Attachments:
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Post by railtechnician on Jul 27, 2014 12:40:34 GMT
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Post by Nortube on Jul 27, 2014 15:44:39 GMT
I'm not sure what that moulding is on the rubble. I don't know if that is the top side (facing) or the underside (ehere the cement is fixed to the tunnel wall or whatever. The moulding indent reminds me of a HV cable, although that's unlikely as I see no reason for an HV cable to be buried in concrete above the platform. At the time of my earlier comments, I had forgotten that the platform was a cut and cver shape rather than a tunnel shaoe.
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Post by cstock on Jul 27, 2014 22:59:32 GMT
And this is from someone who oversees the safety critical operation of a 150 year old railway which four million people rely on everday? That seriously stinks of complete arrogance, especially after the "very slight movement of the track" on the District line.
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Post by railtechnician on Jul 28, 2014 8:16:36 GMT
And this is from someone who oversees the safety critical operation of a 150 year old railway which four million people rely on everday? That seriously stinks of complete arrogance, especially after the "very slight movement of the track" on the District line. Apparently this appears to have been an accident waiting to happen according to the Morning Star |
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Post by cstock on Jul 28, 2014 9:32:00 GMT
I can understand defects like this beccoming apparent but I would have thought these would be with dealt with by constant vigilance and immediate repairs carried out after close of traffic/possession after a fault is found.
I am highly concerened about these comments from senior figures within LUL, if indeed these comments show the attitude toward major health and safety hazards around operational track. In the modern culture of being absolutely obsessed with safety to the point where you have to wear a hi vis to as walk up a flight of stairs, I would hope something like this would be dealt with in a serious manner.
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Post by Nortube on Jul 28, 2014 9:38:42 GMT
I'm surprised the standard hasn't picked up on this - nothing been on their site yet. It would have been interesting to see their description of events!
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Post by Nortube on Jul 28, 2014 10:01:57 GMT
I can understand defects like this beccoming apparent but I would have thought these would be with dealt with by constant vigilance and immediate repairs carried out after close of traffic/possession after a fault is found. I am highly concerened about these comments from senior figures within LUL, if indeed these comments show the attitude toward major health and safety hazards around operational track. In the modern culture of being absolutely obsessed with safety to the point where you have to wear a hi vis to as walk up a flight of stairs, I would hope something like this would be dealt with in a serious manner. Like many companies these days, staff are deliberately cut back and they rely on others, whether it be workers or the public, to report things rather than bother to do preventitive checks. Many accidents etc. could be prevented with proper checks. A few years ago, PROACTIVE* was the buzzword within LU. It was used in training material, used in training courses, spouted by higher managers on visits and notices from management were peppered with it. It was one of those totally unnatural and unreal cringeworthy words that no doubt came from one of the flash American Companies they were paying millions to, that used words such as that to try and justify their ridiculous fees. These sort of words were regularly added to LU's vocabulary as the years passed. The Oxford Dictionaries site describes PROACTIVE as: "adjective (Of a person or action) creating or controlling a situation rather than just responding to it after it has happened: ‘employers must take a proactive approach to equal pay’" Obviously higher up managers never pay any attention to what they tell others! |
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