Securing of levers

[dave1]

I know when levers on a frame need to be secured in what ever position they put a collar on but what about remote controlled frames how do they secure the levers, they would put a collar of the button that bit I know but it is what they do on site.

TIA

[railtechnician]

Oct 21, 2017 9:17:40 GMT dave1 said:

I know when levers on a frame need to be secured in what ever position they put a collar on but what about remote controlled frames how do they secure the levers, they would put a collar of the button that bit I know but it is what they do on site.

TIA

The point of control is where the collaring is done and for a remotely controlled frame that is the route button in the regulating room or control centre or the lever or pushbutton in the controlling signal cabin. There would be little point in temporarily collaring a lever on a remotely controlled frame in traffic hours unless due to failure such a frame is being worked locally, remember the 'collar' does not (usually) physically prevent the movement of a lever or the operation of a pushbutton being nothing more than a reminder to the signaller that the route should not be used.

Of course in the event of signal failure in a route with points in the signal selection(s) there is the remote securing facility, where installed, that can be controlled either from the control point or locally. Such would be invoked by the signaller.. Such relies upon the detection of the correct lay of points in the route to pick up the AWLR and allow trains to take the route by passing a signal at danger with the RS lamp illuminated.

For any long term 'collaring' of a route such as for a route being temporarily out of commission one would expect the withdrawal of appropriate fuses at the remote site and replacement with appropriate notice 'bars' and possible plating of the lever normal such that it could not be physically moved. There would also be a suitable notice at the remote control point and a collar of the pushbutton or lever there.

[dave1]

Oct 22, 2017 16:02:43 GMT railtechnician said:

Oct 21, 2017 9:17:40 GMT dave1 said:

I know when levers on a frame need to be secured in what ever position they put a collar on but what about remote controlled frames how do they secure the levers, they would put a collar of the button that bit I know but it is what they do on site.

TIA

The point of control is where the collaring is done and for a remotely controlled frame that is the route button in the regulating room or control centre or the lever or pushbutton in the controlling signal cabin. There would be little point in temporarily collaring a lever on a remotely controlled frame in traffic hours unless due to failure such a frame is being worked locally, remember the 'collar' does not (usually) physically prevent the movement of a lever or the operation of a pushbutton being nothing more than a reminder to the signaller that the route should not be used.

Of course in the event of signal failure in a route with points in the signal selection(s) there is the remote securing facility, where installed, that can be controlled either from the control point or locally. Such would be invoked by the signaller.. Such relies upon the detection of the correct lay of points in the route to pick up the AWLR and allow trains to take the route by passing a signal at danger with the RS lamp illuminated.

For any long term 'collaring' of a route such as for a route being temporarily out of commission one would expect the withdrawal of appropriate fuses at the remote site and replacement with appropriate notice 'bars' and possible plating of the lever normal such that it could not be physically moved. There would also be a suitable notice at the remote control point and a collar of the pushbutton or lever there.

Thanks for you reply it has made me think a bit and I have some information for the Bakerloo.

I understand that this weekend they are doing work on the cross over at Paddington and it is being taken out of use but the levers for the signals which allow trains to reverse are also being secured. I learnt this by hearing some LU people talking on the platform at Paddington.

What about a site that if a train had a TD for the route which needed to be secure, the route would be called and collaring in the control room would not prevent the route clearing.

[railtechnician]

Oct 25, 2017 11:31:06 GMT dave1 said:

Oct 22, 2017 16:02:43 GMT railtechnician said:

The point of control is where the collaring is done and for a remotely controlled frame that is the route button in the regulating room or control centre or the lever or pushbutton in the controlling signal cabin. There would be little point in temporarily collaring a lever on a remotely controlled frame in traffic hours unless due to failure such a frame is being worked locally, remember the 'collar' does not (usually) physically prevent the movement of a lever or the operation of a pushbutton being nothing more than a reminder to the signaller that the route should not be used.

Of course in the event of signal failure in a route with points in the signal selection(s) there is the remote securing facility, where installed, that can be controlled either from the control point or locally. Such would be invoked by the signaller.. Such relies upon the detection of the correct lay of points in the route to pick up the AWLR and allow trains to take the route by passing a signal at danger with the RS lamp illuminated.

For any long term 'collaring' of a route such as for a route being temporarily out of commission one would expect the withdrawal of appropriate fuses at the remote site and replacement with appropriate notice 'bars' and possible plating of the lever normal such that it could not be physically moved. There would also be a suitable notice at the remote control point and a collar of the pushbutton or lever there.

Thanks for you reply it has made me think a bit and I have some information for the Bakerloo.

I understand that this weekend they are doing work on the cross over at Paddington and it is being taken out of use but the levers for the signals which allow trains to reverse are also being secured. I learnt this by hearing some LU people talking on the platform at Paddington.

What about a site that if a train had a TD for the route which needed to be secure, the route would be called and collaring in the control room would not prevent the route clearing.

I don't know exactly what method of securing the levers will be used, it rather depends upon how long the points will be out of commission and who has access to the IMR etc.The simplest way to secure a lever is to prevent the lever locks from lifting by removing fuses but there are other possibilities. It really depends upon the decision of the appropriate engineering manager whose authority has to be sort to grant the Authority to Work Certificate for the work, s/he will decide what arrangements are suitable as the buck stops with her/him so to speak.

I like your question but the signal operator is always in control of a remote site except in the case of failure of remote control, in which case the YUPPRs would be down, or in the event of the air being off at the frame and/or PMcs, local site power failure etc. In all those cases the TD would be meaningless as the signalling would fail safe. So that leaves the assumption that everything is working normally with one or more signal levers collared and to prevent those routes being selected by a PMc the signal operator would have the appropriate PMcs in Push rather than FCFS or PM modes. I expect he would collar the PMc buttons as well as the route buttons.  

[dave1]

Oct 27, 2017 20:29:35 GMT railtechnician said:

Oct 25, 2017 11:31:06 GMT dave1 said:

Thanks for you reply it has made me think a bit and I have some information for the Bakerloo.

I understand that this weekend they are doing work on the cross over at Paddington and it is being taken out of use but the levers for the signals which allow trains to reverse are also being secured. I learnt this by hearing some LU people talking on the platform at Paddington.

What about a site that if a train had a TD for the route which needed to be secure, the route would be called and collaring in the control room would not prevent the route clearing.

I don't know exactly what method of securing the levers will be used, it rather depends upon how long the points will be out of commission and who has access to the IMR etc.The simplest way to secure a lever is to prevent the lever locks from lifting by removing fuses but there are other possibilities. It really depends upon the decision of the appropriate engineering manager whose authority has to be sort to grant the Authority to Work Certificate for the work, s/he will decide what arrangements are suitable as the buck stops with her/him so to speak.

I like your question but the signal operator is always in control of a remote site except in the case of failure of remote control, in which case the YUPPRs would be down, or in the event of the air being off at the frame and/or PMcs, local site power failure etc. In all those cases the TD would be meaningless as the signalling would fail safe. So that leaves the assumption that everything is working normally with one or more signal levers collared and to prevent those routes being selected by a PMc the signal operator would have the appropriate PMcs in Push rather than FCFS or PM modes. I expect he would collar the PMc buttons as well as the route buttons.  

I have been thinking about this and I don't know if what I have put below makes sense hopefully some sort of sense.

On a lever frame the operator would put a collar and in a control room the same but for covering a button. Now on frames that have been converted for remote working the same would not apply as you would be able to move the lever due to the catches being removed, so I suspect that something exists which could be placed into the slot where the lever moves. On V frames this would not be able to be done so either like you say remove a fuse or plate the lever in the required position. Now thinking about it these frames could you not remove the air supply to do the same?

[railtechnician]

As I said there are lots of possibilities but the issuer of the AWC determines the method to be used. In the case of points they are normally secured by 'pegging' them, this being done at the fuse bay in the IMR. 'Pegging' is just another word for securing, you've no doubt heard of 'pegging a trainstop' which was usually done mechanically in the trainstop preventing the arm coming to the 'on' position although short term sya to pass a single train we would literally put a wedge in the valve to keep the stem down.
One chooses the most appropriate method according to the circumstances but that has to be within the limits of one's IRSE License, back in the day the limit's of one's authority to interfere with signalling were detailed in DQN32. That was superseded a year or so before I retired and I can't recall what the designation became under the new system although I do recall that it was long in terms of characters!