Most awkward place

[dave1]

Just wondering what would be classed as an awkward place to work wither for a failure or maintenance purposes. Forget out on the track as such but having to get to somewhere, I put Down Street IMR as you have to get to the station lets say that trains are still running so you can't walk in the tunnel although I realise that may be needed later and all the protection required would be arranged. Are there any other locations that are worse than my example which I'm sure to those who know the system better than me can elaborate. Hope I have made it clear.

[railtechnician]

Oct 28, 2016 15:25:38 GMT dave1 said:

Just wondering what would be classed as an awkward place to work wither for a failure or maintenance purposes. Forget out on the track as such but having to get to somewhere, I put Down Street IMR as you have to get to the station lets say that trains are still running so you can't walk in the tunnel although I realise that may be needed later and all the protection required would be arranged. Are there any other locations that are worse than my example which I'm sure to those who know the system better than me can elaborate. Hope I have made it clear.

Down Street IMR is not difficult at any time! In traffic hours there are two ways to get there (used to be three)! There is access from the street via the spiral staircase and passageways and the other preferred method is to take a train cab ride from Hyde Park Corner. One could also get a train cab ride from Green Park of course, there are platforms for the IMR entrance at the east end of Down St station.
The third method which we used to use in the old days was to wait for an eastbound train and follow it into the tunnel as far as the bolt hole entrance into the siding tunnel, then walk the siding (possible with a train in the siding) to the door at the west end of Down St. station and follow the corridor through the old telephone exchange room to the IMR. Of course in engineering hours walking to Down St down the track from HPC (preferred) or GPK was another option. I loved working at Down St whether on failure investigation or routine maintenance and was happy to be there on my own but I had several colleagues who were wary of ghosts there.

Trying to deal with a point failure in the loop at Heathrow was the most awkward job I ever had as the trains just kept on coming at high speed and in the end the line controller advised me to leave it for night staff as he felt it unsafe to continue. He got a train to stop and pick me up at 10W (this was prior to the conversion to crossover for Terminal 5). Walking down to that failure from T123 didn't bother me as much as the operating official who accompanied me, he winced every time a train approached in the parallel tunnel. 

ISTR one of the three Claphams as being rather dodgy in traffic hours for working in the trackside telephone kiosk, if the doors weren't latched back properly a passing train entering the platform could hit one. One was in harm's way when working on the cables, running jumpers or testing lines and had to move clear of an approaching train or be run over! I don't think the drivers were too keen at seeing staff working there. At Leicester Square and other places back in the day we used to follow trains into tunnels to work on equipment where there was room to remain and then let a train pass before swiftly walking back to the platform.

Some open section stations could be dodgy on any days or winter nights with sleets running, Finchley Road S/B Met was one such place at the south end of the platform. Terminal stations could also be tricky in traffic hours, it was not unknown for drivers to overrun and demolish or bend the FRL posts before the buffer stops!

However, some of the worst places to work on the system were lift pits, escalator shafts, platform and concourse inverts, floodgate relay rooms and unlit tunnel bolt holes with open 630v dc busbars at waist height.
 

[dave1]

RT Perhaps Down Street was not the best example but thanks as I was not aware of the tunnel to the siding which would make it far easier to access the IMR. I was thinking along the lines of not being able to use the tunnels as such but you have highlighted something I did not even consider. Are there any other locations with other tunnels to give access to sites.

[railtechnician]

Oct 29, 2016 8:59:51 GMT dave1 said:

RT Perhaps Down Street was not the best example but thanks as I was not aware of the tunnel to the siding which would make it far easier to access the IMR. I was thinking along the lines of not being able to use the tunnels as such but you have highlighted something I did not even consider. Are there any other locations with other tunnels to give access to sites.

There are many places on the system which can be accessed in ways unknown to the travelling public, for example at Embankment it is possible to go from the District line to the Bakerloo and Northern lines avoiding all the subways and escalators, it is also possible to go from the ticket hall to the District line tunnel via non-public route, it is even possible to enter the station without entering the booking hall, in fact in the past there were at least three ways to do that but AFAIK only one way now. 
Many stations and locations have ways in other than via the booking hall, I worked at dozens of such places over the years, Baker Street was a golden example of multiple ways to get from one place to another using disused shafts and passageways or via other premises. Leicester Square was another and Moorgate yet another. In the past prior to the Broadgate development there were several ways in and out of Liverpool St station, some of which still exist but which are hidden from view and/or sealed off now.

Sometimes unofficial routes have become official routes, e.g. on the Picc once upon a time staff doing signal maintenance would climb over the fence at Crane Bank to reach the open section of track between Hounslow West and Hatton Cross and then the PWay had some work to do there and conveniently put a gate in the fence to save having to cart all their equipment from an adjacent station. Many surface stations have or have had such arrangements, on a big resignalling job sometimes it saves a small fortune to create a temporary access to a trackside location such as an IMR. Some such facilities become permanent but others are removed at the end of the job. Station modernisation and/or remodelling over the years removed many alternate routes of access/egress to various places but in some cases they were incorporated into the new development but hidden such as at Liverpool Street, Mansion House, Ealing Broadway. These days security being what it is I expect that the vast majority of these routes are monitored and alarmed as it is simply commonsense to do so. I would expect that the world of LUL has changed considerably in the years since I retired, it was certainly changing bigtime in the five years before that. I still recall the depots being unfenced and wide open to anyone who entered, no checking in or out etc, a situation that persisted in many places until the late 1980s but which has been being slowly tightened up ever since. 

[dave1]

RT It must be a maze as a passenger I only see the public side and it looks like a maze but all the other areas amazing. I have seen when they are doing work at stations and they have done some removal you then get to see old posters or even the tiles that were used before, when I use stations and see doors that are open I always have a good look to see what there is sometimes it is equipment and sometimes you can see a passage going off in another direction. I wonder if the newer stations are like this or is it just the older ones.
You say about alarms and you are probably right that they have been installed but I wonder if they are working or even monitored one place (not railway) where I worked which was considered sensitive we used to use a door for a shortcut everyday but no one ever stopped us.

[railtechnician]

Oct 30, 2016 7:53:02 GMT dave1 said:

RT It must be a maze as a passenger I only see the public side and it looks like a maze but all the other areas amazing. I have seen when they are doing work at stations and they have done some removal you then get to see old posters or even the tiles that were used before, when I use stations and see doors that are open I always have a good look to see what there is sometimes it is equipment and sometimes you can see a passage going off in another direction. I wonder if the newer stations are like this or is it just the older ones.
You say about alarms and you are probably right that they have been installed but I wonder if they are working or even monitored one place (not railway) where I worked which was considered sensitive we used to use a door for a shortcut everyday but no one ever stopped us.

Yes alarms do work, in the modern age the tendency is for silent alarms and BTP attendance, more than that I will not say. Back in the day alarm installation was often done by Telephone Installation staff, I installed canteen, ticket collector box and other alarms in my early years in the Telephone department. In recent decades such work was outsourced to external contract comms and electrical installation companies as initially work had to be done at dozens of stations at a time e.g. when UTS ticket offices were built at all stations and also when all the Bostwick Gates were replaced with the new gates after it was deemed unsafe for staffed to be locked in at stations in engineering hours (that kinda stopped the fun of finding ways out as we had to in the 1970s/1980s when we were locked in until official station opening for passengers each morning). With devolution and the great outsourcing of engineering such things as security alarms are generally unknown in detail to LU staff although in emergency I was called to troubleshoot certain alarm circuits (I won't specify) in engineering hours when the contract maintenance staff were neatly tucked up in bed at home as they generally only worked days!

Although I never worked at any of the newly built JLE stations I know that each subsurface station is built in a station box and that box contains some 300-400 rooms depending upon the site, each station has its own telephone exchange in what is a veritable warren of various equipment rooms and offices around the platform tunnels. This is a far cry form the Victoria line in which communications and accommodation seemed to be an afterthought, the main emphasis being the operating department requirements. Heathrow T123 is perhaps one of the early new stations which is a warren with a whole level as non-public area accommodating operating offices, a BTP police station, equipment rooms etc.  Older stations have 'inherited' non-public areas as a result of the removal of lifts and escalators, modernisation etc. Over time the public forgets what once existed and it doesn't take long, think for example about Charing Cross Jubilee platforms, Aldwych station and the Holborn shuttle platform, Liverpool Street Met bay road platform and the disused Central line Broad Street escalator shaft, the remodelled Mansion House, King's Cross, Euston, Baker Street, Camden Town, Embankment, Waterloo, Bank etc. If you have a good idea of the original layout of a station and know how it is today some NPAs are easy to visualise while others require more thought.

[dave1]

RT You are right about some alarms being silent where I work it is but on checking it seems that either it does not work or no one takes any notice. There must be all sorts of alarms on the underground for all sorts of reasons don't need to go into what but if you think about it someone could work out most. How right you are about going through a station that has changed over the years unless you can remember what it was like before then all the bits out of sight would be totally invisible.