Southern cancellation due to Drivers and Conductors sickness

[Nortube]

For some weeks, Southern (and consequently the NR status page) have been stating that train cancellations are due to Conductor sickness. As of the weekend (?), they are now including Driver sickness as well.

The sickness excuse doesn't wash. Like London Underground, I'm certain that Southern and the rest of the train companies have a disciplinary attendance policy that has a very tight control over staff sickness and absence

LU's UA policy (Unauthorised Absence (or whatever it's called these days)) is very strict, some might say draconian. Staff automatically get penalised for unauthorised absence and self / uncertified sickness. Discipliary action can follow. A "proper" medical certificate (e.g., from a doctor or hospital) can be asked for at any time, even where this may only be for one day and would normally be covered by self-certification. This is common if going sick on a bank holiday.

A doctor's certificate can effectively be overridden by LU (especially for longer periods of sickness) by sending the sick member of staff to the board's own doctor for assessment and they will decide whether the member of staff is fit to do their job, or perhaps be returned to work on "light duties"

With this in mind, and assuming that Southern has a similar policy, I can't see how staff would be able to stay sick for long periods. Once the seven days self-cert period is up (unless Southern have a shorter period), a doctor's certificate will be needed to carry on being off work sick.

Whilst it might be possible in one or two cases that staff are certified sick for genuine reasons, I can't see that there are many doctors willing to hand out certificates without there being genuine reason for one. Therefore, I can only assume that, given staff would only be able to be sick for 7 days (or less), staff are agreeing amongst themselves that they should go sick at different times (unlikely) or that staff sickmess isn't the real reason for all the cancellations.


The real reason for the cancellations appears that Southern do not have enough staff to work the trains. Instead, rather than go to the effort and expense of training new staff, they just rely on staff working rest days to fill in the gaps. Surprisingly (to Southern anyway), it appears that staff would sometimes prefer not to work six or whatever days a week and would rather have their rest day as what it should be, a day off, to do other things. After all, the weather's nice, why not go out with the family or catch up with the gardening etc.


Southern know that advertising cancellations as due to:
"Reduced service on some Southern routes
Southern services continue to be severely affected by a high level of conductor and driver sickness. This is leading to a much reduced service on a number of routes. A change of train en-route may be required for some journeys" - the Southern web site today

will give them much more passenger support than "Cancellations due to staff shortages as we do not want to employ enough staff for normal requirements" !

[dave1]

Where I live if they run late they non stop a number of stations but when you look at the sign it shows the train as being cancelled.

[railtechnician]

Being economical with the truth is a disease that permeates this country from the top down, I have little confidence in many things these days because I have no time for 'fairy tales'.

[Nortube]

May 26, 2016 15:30:57 GMT dave1 said:

Where I live if they run late they non stop a number of stations but when you look at the sign it shows the train as being cancelled.

Same thing happens on stations I use / trains I've travelled on. The board says cancelled and the train just passes by non-stop. Or you get told at the last minute "This train will not be stopping at XYZ due to late running" XYZ being six stations. The same thing applies if a train is running empty due to a defect.

Raildar [ Click here ] shows cancelled on the station destination board (as do other sites). However, when looking  at the trains cancelled list (Menu icon / Train History / Trains Cancelled), Raildar doesn't show a train that skips stations as being cancelled. It would appear to be a similar thing (perhaps only in some cases) if the train is reversed short of its destination and thus doesn't physically reach the station.

I assume that this is how NR put out the data that Raildar uses. I would like to think that NR keep track of and record all trains that do not physically stop at every station they're timetabled to.

On a frequent service like the Underground where a cancellation of a train means that passengers just wait another 2-3 minutes, a cancellation is hardly noticeable. However, on a NR line with a 30 minute service, three cancellations or more in a row (not unusual) can mean a two hour gap.

For those that haven't seen the (fairly recently) updated version of Raildar, it's worth having a look

Edit
I've just realised that the Raildar link above takes you to the login page and so you can only see the train performance data if you're a member (just sign up if you want to additional train information - it's useful).
For non-members this link [ Click here ]  takes you to the home page where you can find the destination boards, Map (shows train movmements) and Junction Map (scrollable / zoomable map for the UK showing track layout and (most) trains moving in real time)

[dave1]

May 29, 2016 9:44:17 GMT Nortube said:

May 26, 2016 15:30:57 GMT dave1 said:

Where I live if they run late they non stop a number of stations but when you look at the sign it shows the train as being cancelled.

Same thing happens on stations I use / trains I've travelled on. The board says cancelled and the train just passes by non-stop. Or you get told at the last minute "This train will not be stopping at XYZ due to late running" XYZ being six stations. The same thing applies if a train is running empty due to a defect.

Raildar [ Click here ] shows cancelled on the station destination board (as do other sites). However, when looking  at the trains cancelled list (Menu icon / Train History / Trains Cancelled), Raildar doesn't show a train that skips stations as being cancelled. It would appear to be a similar thing (perhaps only in some cases) if the train is reversed short of its destination and thus doesn't physically reach the station.

I assume that this is how NR put out the data that Raildar uses. I would like to think that NR keep track of and record all trains that do not physically stop at every station they're timetabled to.

On a frequent service like the Underground where a cancellation of a train means that passengers just wait another 2-3 minutes, a cancellation is hardly noticeable. However, on a NR line with a 30 minute service, three cancellations or more in a row (not unusual) can mean a two hour gap.

For those that haven't seen the (fairly recently) updated version of Raildar, it's worth having a look

Edit
I've just realised that the Raildar link above takes you to the login page and so you can only see the train performance data if you're a member (just sign up if you want to additional train information - it's useful).
For non-members this link [ Click here ]  takes you to the home page where you can find the destination boards, Map (shows train movmements) and Junction Map (scrollable / zoomable map for the UK showing track layout and (most) trains moving in real time)

If LU non stopped due to late running most trains would non stop.

[railtechnician]

"On a frequent service like the Underground where a cancellation of a train means that passengers just wait another 2-3 minutes, a cancellation is hardly noticeable. However, on a NR line with a 30 minute service, three cancellations or more in a row (not unusual) can mean a two hour gap"


Nortube

A rather bold statement which I am sure the majority of "commuters" would strongly disagree with. Outside the rush hour very few are affected and those that are, are probably unaware of normal service intervals. Being overcrowded in the rush hour with all services operating normally, the loss of even one train is noticed by commuters who cannot get a seat, cannot get on a train and sometimes cannot even get onto the platform.
Of course it is 11 years since I last used the Underground and perhaps service improvements, if there have been any, have mitigated the loss of the odd train in the rush hour. However, generally speaking, one missing train in the rush hour can have an avalanche effect affecting the service for the rest of the rush hour.

[Nortube]

I fully agree with you, and I must admit that I wasn't really thinking of the rush hour when I said that.

During the line-based residential courses twenty odd years ago that were held at Botley Park for all LU managers, an excellent computer programme was used as a passenger loading simulator to show the cumulative effects of a delay or cancellation. Based on the current (then) timetable for that line, the display showed individual trains represented by vertical hollow (when empty) ovals. The oval would then fill or empty at each station in proportion to the reckoned number of passengers the train would be holding. The amount of passengers on the station platform would be shown by a bar at the station. The passenger levels was based on the then current surveyed passenger figures.

There was a separate simulator for each line (the courses were line based). Using a keyboard, one or more trains could be delayed (held) or cancelled. As the display was based on the current timetable and figures and the trains that were controlled were actual timetabled trains, this gave a display that everybody could relate to. The simulator ran in real time and could be speeded up as required.

On the Northern, the area of the line covered was the busiest part, which was from Morden to Moorgate (or possibly Camden Town) and, from memory, the simulator could be run to cover any time from start of traffic until around noon.

Then, the busiest station and thus the highest amount of passengers arriving on the platform was London Bridge, with the most NR trains arriving at around 08:40. As there was no Jubilee line then, the Northern carried all passengers from there. Even more on rainy days!

The simulator clearly showed the effects of passenger loading in causing delays, especially in the morning peak at London Bridge and Bank where the dwell time could increase to as much as 2+ minutes. As London Bridge and Bank were usually the two busiest stations for passengers alighting / detraining, trains were packed to the very maximum between these stations and the longest delay was caused in this section.

At the time of the simulator, the Northern line peak service was not so frequent, but then there weren't so many passengers as there are today. Therefore, the results would probably be similar today as they were then, although because of the increase in passengers, a delay / cancellation today might have a more noticeable affect, especially when the job goes up the wall.


These days, I think LU tell / advise passengers not to start their tube journey from stations Tooting Broadway to Clapham North in the morning peak because trains are usually getting full by then. Totally pointless, because if all tube passengers did that then the buses wouldn't be able to cope! It would be interesting to see a simulation of the current timetable and passenger loading to see how things have changed over the past twenty years.

[railtechnician]

Nortube

Long ago in 1981 I was based at South Kensington New Works depot on days and working at Leicester Square substation. By the time we got out of the office and down onto the Picc platforms it was around 0815 and sometimes we had to let as many as four or five trains go before we could board one, I had a gang of five or six men at the time and in the worst case scenario we couldn't all travel on the same train. When there was a delay or cancellation we would struggle to get onto the platform and have to let as many as six or seven trains go.
We never alighted at Leicester Square, preferring to alight at Covent Garden and walk down Long Acre avoiding the melee around the escalators and ticket hall at Leicester Square. It was seldom anything but a tiresome journey at the best of times so we used to nip into the old LU Electrical Offices canteen at 15/17 Long Acre (long gone) for a quick cuppa before crossing the road to start work above Stringfellows.

I seldom spent time travelling on passenger trains after that using my car to travel to oustation worksites which were temporary booking on points and then becoming an authorised LU driver in 1987 and driving to worksites on all lines until 1996 when I joined the Picc. I was a permanent night man so the only time I experienced passenger issues after that was on the odd occasion when I had to do a day shift or two on training courses and occasionally, when there were no spare vehicles, I would take the train to Down Street to work in the IMR or to Earls Court to work in the Control Room.

Londoners are spoilt for travel services even when the tube is up the wall or traffic congestion screws the bus services. Where I live today it's half a mile to the nearest bus stop and there are about six buses a day to Lincoln. I believe there is one direct train to London a day from Lincoln but I have never yet used any public transport since moving here 11 years ago. I think the only way I'd ever use National Rail today would be if it was renationalised with a proper national fare structure and decent services. The last time I used NR is was from London to Ashby-de-la-Zouche for training and paid for with an LT railway warrant back in the early noughties. Heading north was okay but the return journey was a nightmare with delays and failures all the way back to London!