Privilege ticket discount changes

[Nortube]

Priv travel changes

There are changes being made to the priv entitlement to fares from 7 September
[ Click Here ]

Priv rates will now also be available on turn-up-and-go fares - Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak fares. Advance fares aren't covered and these may well be cheaper than a priv if you don't mind booking specific trains (months) in advance
see further down for the main details from the site.

It's a 12 month trial, so if you have a priv, get out there and use it!

An example of current fares (deduct 75% for priv fare) from:

London Liverpool St to Norwich:
Anytime single £65.40    Off-Peak single £49.50
Anytime return £105.70  Off-Peak return £50.50

London to Edinburgh
Anytime single £152.00    Off-Peak single £131.00   Super Off-Peak single £125.80
Anytime return £304.00   Off-Peak return £204.00

London to Southend via Upminster
There is very little difference between the anytime return fare (£17.20) and the Off-Peak return fare (£16.40)
and only 20p difference if travelling from Upminster (£12.70 / £12.50)

from the site:
"The discount available for rail staff, known as the “Priv” rate, has been set at 75% of the full-price fare ever since the Rail Staff Travel Scheme was set up. Using the current fare names, this means the Anytime Fare is used to calculate the “Priv” fare.

On and from 7 September 2014 (date of sale), a 12 months’ trial is to commence and the fare on which a “Priv” fare is to be calculated is being expanded to include day and period walk-up off-peak fares (including super off-peak fares). The time restrictions applying to these tickets will also apply to the “Priv” discounted ticket. “Priv” fares continue to be available at ticket offices and on train (if the ticket office is not open on at the departure station).

The following are not covered by this new arrangement:
 Advance Purchase fares
 Season Tickets
 Any fares that include a London Travelcard
 Non-safeguarded (ie TOC) staff only: any fares that include London Underground zone fares, unless making a through-London journey

This new “Priv” rate is available for leisure travel by: -
 Safeguarded staff using their Staff Travel Card (no need to date a box);
 Non-safeguarded staff using the TOC Privilege Card;
 FIP card holders visiting the UK will also now be eligible for discounts on the additional fare types at their prevailing discount rate - typically 50%."

[railtechnician]

Aug 26, 2014 18:41:17 GMT Nortube said:

Priv travel changes

There are changes being made to the priv entitlement to fares from 7 September
[ Click Here ]

Priv rates will now also be available on turn-up-and-go fares - Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak fares. Anytime fares aren't covered and these may well be cheaper than a priv if you don't mind booking specific trains (months) in advance
see further down for the main details from the site.

It's a 12 month trial, so if you have a priv, get out there and use it!

An example of current fares (deduct 75% for priv fare) from:

London Liverpool St to Norwich:
Anytime single £65.40    Off-Peak single £49.50
Anytime return £105.70  Off-Peak return £50.50

London to Edinburgh
Anytime single £152.00    Off-Peak single £131.00   Super Off-Peak single £125.80
Anytime return £304.00   Off-Peak return £204.00

London to Southend via Upminster
There is very little difference between the anytime return fare (£17.20) and the Off-Peak return fare (£16.40)
and only 20p difference if travelling from Upminster (£12.70 / £12.50)

from the site:
"The discount available for rail staff, known as the “Priv” rate, has been set at 75% of the full-price fare ever since the Rail Staff Travel Scheme was set up. Using the current fare names, this means the Anytime Fare is used to calculate the “Priv” fare.

On and from 7 September 2014 (date of sale), a 12 months’ trial is to commence and the fare on which a “Priv” fare is to be calculated is being expanded to include day and period walk-up off-peak fares (including super off-peak fares). The time restrictions applying to these tickets will also apply to the “Priv” discounted ticket. “Priv” fares continue to be available at ticket offices and on train (if the ticket office is not open on at the departure station).

The following are not covered by this new arrangement:
 Advance Purchase fares
 Season Tickets
 Any fares that include a London Travelcard
 Non-safeguarded (ie TOC) staff only: any fares that include London Underground zone fares, unless making a through-London journey

This new “Priv” rate is available for leisure travel by: -
 Safeguarded staff using their Staff Travel Card (no need to date a box);
 Non-safeguarded staff using the TOC Privilege Card;
 FIP card holders visiting the UK will also now be eligible for discounts on the additional fare types at their prevailing discount rate - typically 50%."

This is all well and good but the rail fares system is far too complex. I haven't used my Priv for 15 years and I haven't been on a main line train since the early noughties when LUL sent me on a one day training course in Ashby-de-la-Zouche armed with a railway warrant which I exchanged at Kings Cross for what I then thought was a very expensive return ticket at around £65, today rail fares are ridiculous.

At present if I wanted to nip down to London for the day on the spur of the moment the very best way would be to drive and park the car close to the end of one of the tube lines as it is the cheapest possible method! To be honest I have not used national rail in more than 10 years and I can count on one hand the return trips I have made in the last 25 years.

The anytime return fare to London Kings X from Lincoln Central is currently about £150 although it is apparently possible to split the journey into four legs for which the anytime fare total is around £73. In order for my priv to be of any use to me it would have to discount the anytime main fare by 75% but that would still leave me between a rock and a hard place because I live 10 miles outside the city and have a choice between taking my car to the station and leaving it in a car park all day or catching a bus to the station.
Well car parking prices have gone through the roof in Lincoln since I moved here, these days parking costs 24 hours a day, in any case I simply wouldn't want to leave the car in a car park all day. The problem is that to get an affordable rail fare I would have to have an off peak ticket or an advance ticket, advance tickets sound like a lottery unless one has a specific date months ahead in mind, book online and hope that the ticket will be valid. Off peak would mean travelling later and arriving in London much later so I'd probably want to stay later and that's a problem because the last bus out of Lincoln to the village leaves at around 6pm and the cab fare is more than £20 these days. Other complications include having to change at Newark because there are no direct trains to London (well there is apparently one service early morning on weekdays when it runs). 

Basically it is all too much of a conundrum to ponce about with an unnecessarily complicated ticketting system especially as the railway is only one part of an overall travel problem. As far as I am concerned they could rip up the railway and replace it with a canal for all the use it is to me. The last time I travelled by train I found it cramped, uncomfortable, time consuming and unenjoyable. If I have to spend the kind of money it would cost me for a day trip to London I am always going to prefer my car, which allows me to get there and back in comfort. The only advantage a railway might have is journey time but my last two return rail journeys both suffered awful delays on the return leg, my previous mainline return trip had been a two week training course at Ericsson in Horsham in February 1991 and the train back to Victoria stopped at every single station because of the awful weather conditions at the time. As I had been away for a week I was dragging a suitcase around and it was no fun going to Seven Sisters in the rush hour, by the time I got there I had given up any thought of getting a bus for the last few miles home and forked out for a minicab. I might just have well have used my car and taken the M25 there and back!


This may be of interest to those interested in national rail fares.

[Nortube]

Train fares seem to be designed to keep as many people off the trains as possible. They are ridiculously prices. There are cheaper fares (advance) but they have to be booked in advance, sometimes a month or so, and are tied to a specific date and time. I wonder how many people who buy these tickets actually end up using them. Also, if the train is missed, they then have to pay the full rip off single fare.

Fares were much simpler in BR days. Simply turn up at a booking office, get a single, a return, or a day return and that was generally it. Whilst there were the occasional special offers, they weren't done in the same way that you have to book advanced tickets today.

Privatisation has made things far too complicated, with each company often charging different fares, even when running on the same route.

You mentioned Lincoln, so I thought I'd look up the fares. I got a priv single from Lincoln to KX earlier this year and it was almost £20!

Lincoln to KX second class turn-up-and-go fares, travelling on any train:
Anytime single £78     Return £150
Off-Peak single £69      Return £107
Super Off-Peak single £66.20      Return £69
From 7 September, a priv can be used for 75% off any of these fares.

Not available for priv discount, but included as an example:
Cheapest advance single fare is £11.25 on East Coast, via Retford. A return is two singles - £22.50

Of course, holders of the various rail cards can get a third off these fares, but there may be some restrictions and, of course, you have to pay £30 a year for the card.

With regards to going by car, I've never had a licence. Living in London and getting free bus and tube travel, I never had the urge to learn to drive, even less of an urge to actually buy a car and all the expense that goes with it. It's now even worse travelling by car in London than what it used o be. However, I can still see that, for a family of four or whatever, it will almost certainly be cheaper to travel by car than train if going away, even though the train may be more relaxing.

Thanks for the link, I've downloaded it and will have a read through later.

[railtechnician]

Aug 27, 2014 18:09:59 GMT Nortube said:

Train fares seem to be designed to keep as many people off the trains as possible. They are ridiculously prices. There are cheaper fares (advance) but they have to be booked in advance, sometimes a month or so, and are tied to a specific date and time. I wonder how many people who buy these tickets actually end up using them. Also, if the train is missed, they then have to pay the full rip off single fare.

Fares were much simpler in BR days. Simply turn up at a booking office, get a single, a return, or a day return and that was generally it. Whilst there were the occasional special offers, they weren't done in the same way that you have to book advanced tickets today.

Privatisation has made things far too complicated, with each company often charging different fares, even when running on the same route.

You mentioned Lincoln, so I thought I'd look up the fares. I got a priv single from Lincoln to KX earlier this year and it was almost £20!

Lincoln to KX second class turn-up-and-go fares, travelling on any train:
Anytime single £78     Return £150
Off-Peak single £69      Return £107
Super Off-Peak single £66.20      Return £69
From 7 September, a priv can be used for 75% off any of these fares.

Not available for priv discount, but included as an example:
Cheapest advance single fare is £11.25 on East Coast, via Retford. A return is two singles - £22.50

Of course, holders of the various rail cards can get a third off these fares, but there may be some restrictions and, of course, you have to pay £30 a year for the card.

With regards to going by car, I've never had a licence. Living in London and getting free bus and tube travel, I never had the urge to learn to drive, even less of an urge to actually buy a car and all the expense that goes with it. It's now even worse travelling by car in London than what it used o be. However, I can still see that, for a family of four or whatever, it will almost certainly be cheaper to travel by car than train if going away, even though the train may be more relaxing.

Thanks for the link, I've downloaded it and will have a read through later.

Hands up, I'm confused! Am I misreading what you have posted or have you made an error? In your original post the way I read it you say that priv discount does not apply to Anytime fares but in this post you suggest that a priv can be used to discount them.

As I mentioned Lincoln to Kings X can apparently be bought as a split fare of four return Anytime tickets (Lincoln-Sleaford, Sleaford-Peterborough, Peterborough-St.Neot's, St.Neot's-Kings Cross) totalling less than £73 so if priv discount applies to Anytime tickets the return trip should be less than £20 which sounds more reasonable.

In my opinion the rail regulator should force the TOCs to always offer the cheapest possible Anytime ticket at the time of purchase on a turn up and travel basis. It is always going to be a problem if the booking office is closed. According to an NR contact who has been a train manager for many years from BR to Virgin and more recently First Great Western, selling tickets on trains is a licence to print money especially for anyone caught with the wrong kind of ticket who end up having to pay the full fare which means the actual journey has cost that plus the cost of the incorrectly bought ticket.

As for driving I don't do it much at all now, about once a week to Lincoln, 20 miles return, to do my shopping or for medical appointments is my limit although a couple of weeks back I made a trip to Essex for a family gathering, to see my younger sisters and their families for the first time in 10 years and other members including cousins that I haven't seen in 40 and 50 years. I did about 340 miles return, I was on the road about 7 hours and it cost me £45 to fill the petrol tank for the return leg.  The scenic route there took about 4 hours via A15, A17 etc via Downham Market and Ipswich and was about 150 miles and the return journey was towards Bedford to pick up the A1 to Newark and A46 home, 190 miles in 3 hours. I left home at about 0745 and got home at about 0130. I don't think NR can compete with it, one cousin who arrived at the gathering from Southend by train turned up at about 1300 and had to be away by 1900 to get home in reasonable time. The rest of us all drove from various parts of the east coast, other parts of Essex and London. Most of us, our generation of cousins of this side of the family was about 35 souls, although several are no longer alive, were brought up to travel by public transport in the 1950s and 1960s and most of us became car drivers in the 1970s when motoring was fun and gave a sense of freedom unlike today with the roads so overcrowded. After 43 years on a full licence I still like driving and the freedom that it allows me so I generally travel very early and very late to avoid congestion, jams and gridlock. In London for most of my years at LU I used my car to commute and sometimes when on duty too, it was quicker and more convenient even though I was paying for the petrol.

When I first moved to Lincoln I still had a house in London and would go there and collect the mail about once a month. I'd be there and back by 0800 whatever route I chose, absolutely impossible by public transport!
 

[Nortube]

A quick post.

Sorry, my error. It should have read that you can't get a priv discount on ADVANCE fares.

Anytime fares are still eligible for priv discount.