Ben
Box Boy
Posts: 65 
|
Post by Ben on Mar 14, 2013 12:30:40 GMT
From what I understand there were a few elements of the upgrade that didn't make it through to the end, one of them being the (re)installation of some crossovers. Would anyone be able to comment more specifically on this aspect as originally envisaged?
Thanks in advance,
Ben |
|
|
|
Post by GentlemanJim on Mar 14, 2013 12:42:50 GMT
From what I understand there were a few elements of the upgrade that didn't make it through to the end, one of them being the (re)installation of some crossovers. Would anyone be able to comment more specifically on this aspect as originally envisaged?
Thanks in advance,
Ben It might take a bit of time but we'll see if we can get hold of a before and after line diagram. |
|
|
|
Post by Nortube on Mar 14, 2013 18:39:27 GMT
Not being a Vic line person, I'm not sure what, if anything, wasn't carried out. As far as I know, there were no crossovers that had been taken out in the past on the running line. A signal diagram for the original layout is here: www.microlp.co.uk/Homea/diagrams.htmlIf any information can be found as to anything that was planned but didn't make it, that will be posted in this thread. |
|
Ben
Box Boy
Posts: 65
|
Post by Ben on Mar 14, 2013 20:26:25 GMT
Thanks both. There were scissors at one time north of Highbury and Victoria, but Highbury was temporary, and Victoria went with the Brixton extension. I don't know if either was going back in or not though, or if anything else was anticipated. Harsig has some good diagrams on his webpage of the signalling from the start www.harsig.org/Victoria.htm |
|
|
|
Post by Nortube on Mar 14, 2013 20:34:12 GMT
I'd forgotten about the temporary crossovers. Similar to Moorgate with the scissors crossover south of the station and the same with Angel, the two temporary termini when the line was extended to Euston. Mind you, Angel did have a siding which it kept in use, but it did lose the scissors crossover when the tunnels were lengthened and the line extended to Camden.
|
|
Ben
Box Boy
Posts: 65
|
Post by Ben on Mar 14, 2013 20:51:00 GMT
The Northern has quite a few disused crossovers and sidings doesnt it! Were many still in use by the 1950s? Its a shame the signalling plans only show the track and not the tunnel bores aswell.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nortube on Mar 15, 2013 0:42:32 GMT
I'm not too sure. All off the top of my head:
Clapham Common was still in use in the early 70s, but closed when the Crossover at Stockwell was opened on the site of the old platforms and scissors crossover.
I think the siding (still in place minus track) at Stockwell was taken out of use when the existing platforms were built. Some of Stockwell depot tunnel is still there. Didn't bother to go along it so I can't say how much. However I think it's still used as a cable tunnel from Stockwell substation which is on part of the site of the old depot.
London Bridge was still in use until they started building the Jubilee line.
I'm certain Moorgate now has some for of equipment room above the crossover that may have been there since IMRs were introduced.
Elephant & Castle closed when they realigned the SB track during tunnel widening / platform extension in the 20s. I'm certain that was when Old St siding closed.
The scissors crossover at Angel disappeared when the station was lengthened. Not sure when the siding lost it's connection to the NB line. The track was still in place when they cut through the siding for the NB diversion.
I'm not sure when Euston siding was closed, possibly when they diverted the NB track. I assume that was when the scissors crossover was removed as well, just leaving the Euston loop connection from the old NB.
Without digging up my notes, I can't remember if there was a crossover at Brent Cross or not, I suspect there was. If so, I assume it was removed when the when the line was extended to Hendon. The passing loops at Brent Cross were added a bit after the Extension, but I can't remember when they closed.
16 sidings at Edgware officially closed around a year ago.
The scissors crossover south of Archway was reduced to an emergency crossover after the line was extended t join the main line, but I'm not sure when that closed.
Totteridge crossover was only removed fairly recently, although it hadn't been in use for some while.
I assume the scissors crossover at Hendon was removed once the extension to Edgware was opened.
and I think that just about covers everything!
|
|
|
|
Post by railtechnician on Mar 19, 2013 20:56:49 GMT
I'm not too sure. All off the top of my head: Clapham Common was still in use in the early 70s, but closed when the Crossover at Stockwell was opened on the site of the old platforms and scissors crossover. I think the siding (still in place minus track) at Stockwell was taken out of use when the existing platforms were built. Some of Stockwell depot tunnel is still there. Didn't bother to go along it so I can't say how much. However I think it's still used as a cable tunnel from Stockwell substation which is on part of the site of the old depot. London Bridge was still in use until they started building the Jubilee line. I'm certain Moorgate now has some for of equipment room above the crossover that may have been there since IMRs were introduced. Elephant & Castle closed when they realigned the SB track during tunnel widening / platform extension in the 20s. I'm certain that was when Old St siding closed. The scissors crossover at Angel disappeared when the station was lengthened. Not sure when the siding lost it's connection to the NB line. The track was still in place when they cut through the siding for the NB diversion. I'm not sure when Euston siding was closed, possibly when they diverted the NB track. I assume that was when the scissors crossover was removed as well, just leaving the Euston loop connection from the old NB. Without digging up my notes, I can't remember if there was a crossover at Brent Cross or not, I suspect there was. If so, I assume it was removed when the when the line was extended to Hendon. The passing loops at Brent Cross were added a bit after the Extension, but I can't remember when they closed. 16 sidings at Edgware officially closed around a year ago. The scissors crossover south of Archway was reduced to an emergency crossover after the line was extended t join the main line, but I'm not sure when that closed. Totteridge crossover was only removed fairly recently, although it hadn't been in use for some while. I assume the scissors crossover at Hendon was removed once the extension to Edgware was opened. and I think that just about covers everything! Clapham Common crossover was taken out just a few weeks before I began my LT career in April 1977. The previous new starter on Signal New Works at Whitechapel, taken on six weeks before me, was on the removal changeover and a few weeks after I started we had a night shift there doing some tidying up in what had been the former cabin. Stockwell disused siding contains Stockwell IMR, it was one of the first places that I ever worked when I went onto nights in 1977 putting tracks to standard at the three Claphams and Stockwell. The IMR pretty much blocks the tunnel beyond which is a cable route to the substation. I haven't worked there since the late 1980s when I was recovering 'gap' phones from the running tunnels and accessed the running tunnels via the substation shaft. |
|
|
|
Post by Nortube on Mar 19, 2013 21:43:59 GMT
I remember reversing N-S at Clapham Common as a Guard. I vaguely seem to think that this was due to a derailment at Kennington, but I'm not certain. I think all the crossover was still there then, but it was only used as an emergency crossover, not a scissors crossover.
It was strange walking all the way along a disused siding (with concrete floor) to the IMR at the dead end, even though it is the most logical place to put it.
|
|
|
|
Post by fitztightly on Mar 24, 2013 23:08:40 GMT
I'm not too sure that any crossovers were removed from the Vic during the upgrade - I may be wrong. I'll check when I'm next in but I'm sure we came tearing into Victoria on the South recently, rattling over the pointwork as we approached. I'll check Highbury as well.
I was going up to town to Highbury for a gig last year, feeling mopey about the fact that all the 67s had gone. Waiting on Oxo North, all of a sudden this thing came barrelling down the platform like a cat on fire.... Doors open, doors shut and it seemed like the blink of an eye and we were at Highbury.
Now I am the last person to extoll the virtues of mission statements and new world namby pambyness - but I have to say that (even though I still miss the 67s!) after upgrade the Vic is stunning, truly world class and something to be proud of.
|
|
|
|
Post by fitztightly on Mar 25, 2013 20:49:35 GMT
Just had a word with one of my venerable Victoria Line colleagues and he confirmed that all is as it was before the upgrade: At Victoria and Highbury and Islington there is a crossover north of the station, signalled by colour light so therefore accessible by trains in Passenger service, which allows reversing from South to North. Reversing trains arrive in the Southbound platform, detrain (or entrain Northbound passengers), the Driver changes ends and Bob et ton Oncle when he has a clear signal the train can go north. Simples.
|
|
Ben
Box Boy
Posts: 65
|
Post by Ben on Mar 27, 2013 0:00:05 GMT
Just noticed this! Fitztightly; the initial upgrade plan inserted (or reinstated) *extra* crossovers into the line to achieve greater flexibility, apparently. However this was dropped from the plan eventually so I'm trying to find out where these crossovers may have been. Thanks for asking though.
Both crossovers you mention were formerly scissors, but when the line was extended beyond each point they were simplified.
|
|
