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Post by dave1 on Jan 30, 2017 14:37:39 GMT
Now I know that 9-car trains worked on the Edgware branch but was the Barnet branch able to cope length of platforms positioning of signals. What about the sidings.
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Post by Nortube on Jan 30, 2017 20:49:30 GMT
Archway sidings was capable of holding a 9-car train.
As on the Edgware branch, the existing tunnel stations on the Barnet branch had only 7-car platform lengths.
Following on from the platform length extensions on the Edgware branch open sections, there were plans (under the New Works?) to do similar for the Barnet branch. When the line was extended from Archway (then called Highgate), the only complete new station built – Highgate – was built with 9-car platforms in preparation for use by 9-car trains.
East Finchley, although an existing mainline station was completely rebuilt with two additional platforms for the tube services. All four platforms could take 9-car trains.
The rest of the open sections, which were all main line stations, varied a little in length, but were generally the same length as the standard 7-car platforms, with High Barnet as the terminus being a bit longer to allow for engine shunting requirements etc.
9-car trains would not be able to stable in High Barnet sidings
In theory, 9-car trains would have been able to stable on various roads in Highgate depot as there were a variety of additional stabling roads in main line days that are no longer there in the much reduced size that it is today. Indeed, when used by LU, Highgate Woods sidings used to be able to accommodate two 7-car trains on each of the four sidings. These were lost when Highgate depot originally closed before re-opening several years later as a remodelled Highgate Sidings.
I’m not sure how long the Royal Train was, but that used to stable at Highgate Depot in the sixties (possibly stabled in Wellington sidings?)
I’m certain that the main line platforms to Alexandra Palace wouldn’t have been able to accommodate 9-car trains, and I don’t think LU had any plans to extend the platforms on that branch.
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Post by dave1 on Jan 31, 2017 9:38:14 GMT
Archway sidings was capable of holding a 9-car train. As on the Edgware branch, the existing tunnel stations on the Barnet branch had only 7-car platform lengths. Following on from the platform length extensions on the Edgware branch open sections, there were plans (under the New Works?) to do similar for the Barnet branch. When the line was extended from Archway (then called Highgate), the only complete new station built – Highgate – was built with 9-car platforms in preparation for use by 9-car trains. East Finchley, although an existing mainline station was completely rebuilt with two additional platforms for the tube services. All four platforms could take 9-car trains. The rest of the open sections, which were all main line stations, varied a little in length, but were generally the same length as the standard 7-car platforms, with High Barnet as the terminus being a bit longer to allow for engine shunting requirements etc. 9-car trains would not be able to stable in High Barnet sidings In theory, 9-car trains would have been able to stable on various roads in Highgate depot as there were a variety of additional stabling roads in main line days that are no longer there in the much reduced size that it is today. Indeed, when used by LU, Highgate Woods sidings used to be able to accommodate two 7-car trains on each of the four sidings. These were lost when Highgate depot originally closed before re-opening several years later as a remodelled Highgate Sidings. I’m not sure how long the Royal Train was, but that used to stable at Highgate Depot in the sixties (possibly stabled in Wellington sidings?) I’m certain that the main line platforms to Alexandra Palace wouldn’t have been able to accommodate 9-car trains, and I don’t think LU had any plans to extend the platforms on that branch. Thanks Nortube for all that information I have never been on the Barnet branch only seen photos. They stabled the Royal train there another interesting piece of information. |
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Post by railtechnician on Jan 31, 2017 14:17:29 GMT
Archway sidings was capable of holding a 9-car train. As on the Edgware branch, the existing tunnel stations on the Barnet branch had only 7-car platform lengths. Following on from the platform length extensions on the Edgware branch open sections, there were plans (under the New Works?) to do similar for the Barnet branch. When the line was extended from Archway (then called Highgate), the only complete new station built – Highgate – was built with 9-car platforms in preparation for use by 9-car trains. East Finchley, although an existing mainline station was completely rebuilt with two additional platforms for the tube services. All four platforms could take 9-car trains. The rest of the open sections, which were all main line stations, varied a little in length, but were generally the same length as the standard 7-car platforms, with High Barnet as the terminus being a bit longer to allow for engine shunting requirements etc. 9-car trains would not be able to stable in High Barnet sidings In theory, 9-car trains would have been able to stable on various roads in Highgate depot as there were a variety of additional stabling roads in main line days that are no longer there in the much reduced size that it is today. Indeed, when used by LU, Highgate Woods sidings used to be able to accommodate two 7-car trains on each of the four sidings. These were lost when Highgate depot originally closed before re-opening several years later as a remodelled Highgate Sidings. I’m not sure how long the Royal Train was, but that used to stable at Highgate Depot in the sixties (possibly stabled in Wellington sidings?) I’m certain that the main line platforms to Alexandra Palace wouldn’t have been able to accommodate 9-car trains, and I don’t think LU had any plans to extend the platforms on that branch. Thanks Nortube for all that information I have never been on the Barnet branch only seen photos. They stabled the Royal train there another interesting piece of information. One more useful/throwaway piece of info regarding Archway siding. Despite working there I never saw the siding myself but a former post run installation inspector who was once a Northern line AET told me in the 1980s that the siding was unusual in that it had a Pi Delta track circuit. I have never heard of one of these anywhere else and to date have never managed to discover any info about it. It was also suggested that it was possible to stable more than one train in the siding although I don't know if that meant two full length 7 car trains or as indicated by Nortube a single 9 car train. |
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Post by dave1 on Jan 31, 2017 15:58:14 GMT
Thanks Nortube for all that information I have never been on the Barnet branch only seen photos. They stabled the Royal train there another interesting piece of information. One more useful/throwaway piece of info regarding Archway siding. Despite working there I never saw the siding myself but a former post run installation inspector who was once a Northern line AET told me in the 1980s that the siding was unusual in that it had a Pi Delta track circuit. I have never heard of one of these anywhere else and to date have never managed to discover any info about it. It was also suggested that it was possible to stable more than one train in the siding although I don't know if that meant two full length 7 car trains or as indicated by Nortube a single 9 car train. I wonder if perhaps Archway siding was the first to have one of these circuits. Was the Pi not used to signify a delta circuit but as you say you were told it was a Pi delta track circuit it could even be the name that was first used as I seem to remember that other bits of equipment have had their names changed. In the early days the trains were run as short trains outside the peak perhaps that is what is meant and with the siding being longer it would seem to slot in. |
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Post by railtechnician on Jan 31, 2017 16:52:59 GMT
One more useful/throwaway piece of info regarding Archway siding. Despite working there I never saw the siding myself but a former post run installation inspector who was once a Northern line AET told me in the 1980s that the siding was unusual in that it had a Pi Delta track circuit. I have never heard of one of these anywhere else and to date have never managed to discover any info about it. It was also suggested that it was possible to stable more than one train in the siding although I don't know if that meant two full length 7 car trains or as indicated by Nortube a single 9 car train. I wonder if perhaps Archway siding was the first to have one of these circuits. Was the Pi not used to signify a delta circuit but as you say you were told it was a Pi delta track circuit it could even be the name that was first used as I seem to remember that other bits of equipment have had their names changed. In the early days the trains were run as short trains outside the peak perhaps that is what is meant and with the siding being longer it would seem to slot in. No Delta is used to signify delta track circuits, the only other Greek letter tracks I am aware of were the Beta tracks on the Vic line, Pi does not appear anywhere in signalling that I am aware of. |
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Post by dave1 on Jan 31, 2017 18:37:22 GMT
I wonder if perhaps Archway siding was the first to have one of these circuits. Was the Pi not used to signify a delta circuit but as you say you were told it was a Pi delta track circuit it could even be the name that was first used as I seem to remember that other bits of equipment have had their names changed. In the early days the trains were run as short trains outside the peak perhaps that is what is meant and with the siding being longer it would seem to slot in. No Delta is used to signify delta track circuits, the only other Greek letter tracks I am aware of were the Beta tracks on the Vic line, Pi does not appear anywhere in signalling that I am aware of. Bad wording on my part I should have the term being used was Pi and if they used a different way to say it but we will never know unless someone finds the evidence. I came across this on the signal box forum. |
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Post by railtechnician on Feb 1, 2017 14:56:10 GMT
No Delta is used to signify delta track circuits, the only other Greek letter tracks I am aware of were the Beta tracks on the Vic line, Pi does not appear anywhere in signalling that I am aware of. Bad wording on my part I should have the term being used was Pi and if they used a different way to say it but we will never know unless someone finds the evidence. I came across this on the signal box forum. Interesting, looks as though the original delta tracks were given individual greek letter designations rather than all being designated as delta. The suggestion then might be that a Pi Delta was indeed two 10' 10'' deltas working together perhaps to identify exact location of a whole train rather than just the front as in approach control or just the rear as in backlock circuitry. AFAIK the 10' 10'' deltas were extant in some places when I began my career. I recall drawing out the circuit of one from the Cockfosters bookwiring back in 1978 and in my little black book of standard circuits I still have the official 10' 10'' delta rail circuit as issued to signal linemen. |
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Post by dave1 on Feb 1, 2017 19:22:12 GMT
Bad wording on my part I should have the term being used was Pi and if they used a different way to say it but we will never know unless someone finds the evidence. I came across this on the signal box forum. Interesting, looks as though the original delta tracks were given individual greek letter designations rather than all being designated as delta. The suggestion then might be that a Pi Delta was indeed two 10' 10'' deltas working together perhaps to identify exact location of a whole train rather than just the front as in approach control or just the rear as in backlock circuitry. AFAIK the 10' 10'' deltas were extant in some places when I began my career. I recall drawing out the circuit of one from the Cockfosters bookwiring back in 1978 and in my little black book of standard circuits I still have the official 10' 10'' delta rail circuit as issued to signal linemen. It does seem to point that direction and how wonderful history can be. |
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