Signal Lineman's Depot

[dave1]

I know they have another name but after looking through some old material I see there was a large number of depots. What sort of equipment would they have had and perhaps still do, I know there would be tools and such things but would there be any alarms or indicators provided.

[railtechnician]

Jan 26, 2016 15:42:30 GMT dave1 said:

I know they have another name but after looking through some old material I see there was a large number of depots. What sort of equipment would they have had and perhaps still do, I know there would be tools and such things but would there be any alarms or indicators provided.

In general terms no! The only thing that used to be indicated in the lineman depot was the ac main with three bulbs on each leg to earth at half glow in normal circumstances, an earth fault on one leg extinguishing its three bulbs and giving full glow to the three bulbs on the other leg to indicate the fault. The 600v panel was just a board with open ES lampholders and connections mounted on one of the depot walls. These were removed long ago as part of an H&S drive before many of the former depots were closed. These days most lines have just a handful of depots, for instance when I retired from the Picc in 2005 we had only Arnos Grove, Acton Town and Earls Court and also Wembley Park with an unmanned outstation at Finchley Road on the Jubilee which we maintained from Charing X to Stanmore. Soon after I retired the Jubilee got its own signalling organisation. The Northern line used to look after the JLE half and had its own Jube depots, one was at London Bridge but that may have been shared with the Northern line. I don't know what depots the Jubilee organisation had although there was one at Neasden of course. 

[dave1]

Jan 26, 2016 16:39:16 GMT railtechnician said:

Jan 26, 2016 15:42:30 GMT dave1 said:

I know they have another name but after looking through some old material I see there was a large number of depots. What sort of equipment would they have had and perhaps still do, I know there would be tools and such things but would there be any alarms or indicators provided.

In general terms no! The only thing that used to be indicated in the lineman depot was the ac main with three bulbs on each leg to earth at half glow in normal circumstances, an earth fault on one leg extinguishing its three bulbs and giving full glow to the three bulbs on the other leg to indicate the fault. The 600v panel was just a board with open ES lampholders and connections mounted on one of the depot walls. These were removed long ago as part of an H&S drive before many of the former depots were closed. These days most lines have just a handful of depots, for instance when I retired from the Picc in 2005 we had only Arnos Grove, Acton Town and Earls Court and also Wembley Park with an unmanned outstation at Finchley Road on the Jubilee which we maintained from Charing X to Stanmore. Soon after I retired the Jubilee got its own signalling organisation. The Northern line used to look after the JLE half and had its own Jube depots, one was at London Bridge but that may have been shared with the Northern line. I don't know what depots the Jubilee organisation had although there was one at Neasden of course. 

RT thanks for that would I be right that in the old days there would be a lineman at each signal box? I suppose now they have computers so if there was a problem or failure it would be brought to their attention.

[railtechnician]

dave1

Yes back in the day there would have been a lineman at every signal box. In the old days there were mechanical linemen to deal with point rodding and signal pull wires as well as signal linemen for the electrical side. When power frames began to take over control of interlockings mechanical linemen began to disappear and a new higher grade lineman known as a power signal lineman was created. The organisation of signal maintenance staff then comprised PSL, signal lineman, mechanical lineman, senior circuit installer, circuit installer, point fitter and unskilled staff. That was before my time and I expect I may have missed a grade or two from the list.
When I began my LT service I was a T4E, the grades at that time being AET (formerly PSL) Tech 1S signal lineman, Tech 2S signal lineman (did mostly the linemens donkey work, track shunts, delta spreads, possessions etc), Tech 3M mechanical lineman, Tech 3E (formerly senior circuit installer), Tech 4E (formerly circuit installer), Tech 5M (formerly point fitter), Assistant Tech (assumed to be a circuit installer in training), Assistant (unskilled but assumed to be training to be a Tech 4E or Tech 5M).
Of course I began my LT career with signal New Works where we also had T2M Mechanical Chargehand, T2E Electrical Chargehand and the only lineman grades were 6 AETs spread across the New Works depots by an organisational quirk highlighted in a dispute over permanencies and who paid their wages! There were also locking fitters through signals who were Starred Craftsmen (Shops Grades) and some specialist mechanical trades i.e. Blacksmith and Chargehand Point Fitter.

There were lineman depots at every signal box and interlocking when I began my service, there were also Cable lineman depots, Telephone lineman depots, and later radio lineman depots. In practice the radio lineman depots were usually shared with the telephone maintenance main depots and of course later Tech 1E telephone linemen and Tech 1e radio linemen became Comms Equipment Technicians (CETs). Of course from the rolling stock side there were car examiners all over the railway too.

For my sins my progression through the grades was T4E signals installation, T3/4E signals, Higher Grade Working T2E signals, T3/4E Telephone lineman in training, T2E Communications Installation chargehand, T2E signal training school comms instructor, T2E Comms Installation again, T1E Comms Installation lineman, CET Comms Installation, Class 1 Inspector Communications and then came devolution and I reverted to Technical Officer Comms, then transferred to line signal maintenance in that grade before becoming Technical Officer Signals and Communications.

These days my understanding is that the whole concept of maintenance has changed such that staff are centralised to very few locations. Of course when I began my service we travelled everywhere by train so lots of depots were needed in case of shutdowns preventing staff reaching incidents although it was allowed to go by taxi when justified!

Today staff are line based and centralised (devolution to lines involved the building of new depots on all lines) with the vehicles needed to get around the network and little or no reliance upon the railway for transport. IIRC I first became an LT driver in 1987 and drove LT/LU fleet vehicles and hired vehicles of all sorts for 17 years working on all lines. I doubt that any engineering staff these days will ever have the opportunity tom work across the combine as I did, we also used to do work in bus locations and all rail depots in my time with the telephone / comms sections. Of course Chiswick Works is long gone and Acton Works is a shadow of its former self, the bus garages and offices are no longer part of the organisation.

LT back in the day was not perfect but in so many ways it was better than it appears to be today, once upon a time the whole railway management structure was at Earls Court but today it has become a very fragmented organisation with devolved offices all over London and what I see as an inverted organisation top heavy with management such that every worker at the sharp end costs £100s per hour (I kid you not) to the taxpayer.

[dave1]

Jan 29, 2016 12:21:06 GMT railtechnician said:

dave1

Yes back in the day there would have been a lineman at every signal box. In the old days there were mechanical linemen to deal with point rodding and signal pull wires as well as signal linemen for the electrical side. When power frames began to take over control of interlockings mechanical linemen began to disappear and a new higher grade lineman known as a power signal lineman was created. The organisation of signal maintenance staff then comprised PSL, signal lineman, mechanical lineman, senior circuit installer, circuit installer, point fitter and unskilled staff. That was before my time and I expect I may have missed a grade or two from the list.
When I began my LT service I was a T4E, the grades at that time being AET (formerly PSL) Tech 1S signal lineman, Tech 2S signal lineman (did mostly the linemens donkey work, track shunts, delta spreads, possessions etc), Tech 3M mechanical lineman, Tech 3E (formerly senior circuit installer), Tech 4E (formerly circuit installer), Tech 5M (formerly point fitter), Assistant Tech (assumed to be a circuit installer in training), Assistant (unskilled but assumed to be training to be a Tech 4E or Tech 5M).
Of course I began my LT career with signal New Works where we also had T2M Mechanical Chargehand, T2E Electrical Chargehand and the only lineman grades were 6 AETs spread across the New Works depots by an organisational quirk highlighted in a dispute over permanencies and who paid their wages! There were also locking fitters through signals who were Starred Craftsmen (Shops Grades) and some specialist mechanical trades i.e. Blacksmith and Chargehand Point Fitter.

There were lineman depots at every signal box and interlocking when I began my service, there were also Cable lineman depots, Telephone lineman depots, and later radio lineman depots. In practice the radio lineman depots were usually shared with the telephone maintenance main depots and of course later Tech 1E telephone linemen and Tech 1e radio linemen became Comms Equipment Technicians (CETs). Of course from the rolling stock side there were car examiners all over the railway too.

For my sins my progression through the grades was T4E signals installation, T3/4E signals, Higher Grade Working T2E signals, T3/4E Telephone lineman in training, T2E Communications Installation chargehand, T2E signal training school comms instructor, T2E Comms Installation again, T1E Comms Installation lineman, CET Comms Installation, Class 1 Inspector Communications and then came devolution and I reverted to Technical Officer Comms, then transferred to line signal maintenance in that grade before becoming Technical Officer Signals and Communications.

These days my understanding is that the whole concept of maintenance has changed such that staff are centralised to very few locations. Of course when I began my service we travelled everywhere by train so lots of depots were needed in case of shutdowns preventing staff reaching incidents although it was allowed to go by taxi when justified!

Today staff are line based and centralised (devolution to lines involved the building of new depots on all lines) with the vehicles needed to get around the network and little or no reliance upon the railway for transport. IIRC I first became an LT driver in 1987 and drove LT/LU fleet vehicles and hired vehicles of all sorts for 17 years working on all lines. I doubt that any engineering staff these days will ever have the opportunity tom work across the combine as I did, we also used to do work in bus locations and all rail depots in my time with the telephone / comms sections. Of course Chiswick Works is long gone and Acton Works is a shadow of its former self, the bus garages and offices are no longer part of the organisation.

LT back in the day was not perfect but in so many ways it was better than it appears to be today, once upon a time the whole railway management structure was at Earls Court but today it has become a very fragmented organisation with devolved offices all over London and what I see as an inverted organisation top heavy with management such that every worker at the sharp end costs £100s per hour (I kid you not) to the taxpayer.

RT what you have said things have changed beyond belief and I bet there are some people who should not be doing the job that they are but got their job for all the wrong reasons.