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Post by hellocontrol on Jun 21, 2015 17:11:34 GMT
Something I have been asked is about the positions on a V frame of the levers. Some frames they seem to be in one position and there are others, any idea why.
Two examples I have not put all the levers but hopefully I have made it clear.
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Post by railtechnician on Jun 22, 2015 0:46:02 GMT
Something I have been asked is about the positions on a V frame of the levers. Some frames they seem to be in one position and there are others, any idea why. Two examples I have not put all the levers but hopefully I have made it clear. - - - - - - - - If you are referring to the lever slots in the fascia i.e. top, middle and bottom they are mostly that way from left to right AFAIR where the frames have levers at three levels and usually top, bottom where there are only two rows. I suspect there are two possible reasons for the positioning, i.e. Westinghouse made them that way and there is more than one generation of V style frame. The more modern auto release frames tend to have levers at three levels while the earlier versions with release levers tend to have them at two levels. That said it may also be the whim of the locking fitter that installed a frame especially if the locking has been extensively modified i.e. at some of the oldest sites. Funny thing, towards the end of my career when on light duties I spent a lot of hours frame cleaning every frame on the Picc and the Jubilee and a few on the District and I cannot recall in detail which lever positions applied at most sites! |
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Post by hellocontrol on Jun 22, 2015 10:16:00 GMT
RT, I suppose you would call them slots I had never really noticed how they was positioned and I always thought that LU signals people put them together on site. I was aware that there were different machines but only as V1 & V2 (nothing to do with the war) I have met a few locking fitters over the years not that there were many of them, always in demand. This site shows some V Frames Go to frame styles then you will see V frames. |
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Post by railtechnician on Jun 23, 2015 4:56:43 GMT
RT, I suppose you would call them slots I had never really noticed how they was positioned and I always thought that LU signals people put them together on site. I was aware that there were different machines but only as V1 & V2 (nothing to do with the war) I have met a few locking fitters over the years not that there were many of them, always in demand. This site shows some V Frames Go to frame styles then you will see V frames. I can think of no other description of the rectangular horizontal cutout through which a lever travels N to R and back again than a slot! Of course in signalling terms slot has another meaning entirely but originally referred to such a physical slot (literally a rectangular slot which had to be in the correct position such that a locking block could enter and/or pass through it) in the mechanical signalling mechanisms such that signals and points could be mechanically locked at trackside. Yes locking fitters were a scarce resource, starred craftsmen when I began my LT service, only one in each of the signal installation depots and a handful on maintenance. Generally they would have one or two Assistant Technicians as trainee locking fitters at any given time who would have to pass a basic mechanical test comprising theory and practical (make a fishplate to a drawing) before being taken as serious candidates and potential locking fitters. The locking fitter practical test as I recall was to cut a one inch rectangle as a diamond in a mild steel plate and then cut a one inch cube from a mild steel bar which had to pass through the plate to a few thou (can't recall how many thou but not many!) tolerance in every plane. Locking fitters on signal installation did install the frames on site and modify locking etc to suit the specification of the interlocking. Locking fitters were regraded to Technical Officers back in 1992 along with AETs and CETs. AETs would do general frame maintenance and emergency change valves, air motors etc under the old regime. As a Picc Line Engineering Technical Officer I was trained by a former Maintenance Locking Fitting Inspector to change lever frame contacts and other parts on V style frames as were a number of my colleagues but, except in emergency, we would always book a locking fitter from SE&C to change everything except valves and motors which we would do ourselves if a locking fitter was not available. As I mentioned I spent a lot of time cleaning frames, the basic 6 month routine contact cleaning, oiling and polishing with my large chamois square and contact cleaning sticks. However, only a locking fitter does a full frame clean which includes checking the locking for wear, making adjustments to contacts etc to keep it in top condition. |
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Post by dave1 on Jun 24, 2015 6:54:34 GMT
Perhaps a silly question, why are they called V frames?
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Post by railtechnician on Jun 25, 2015 5:26:49 GMT
Perhaps a silly question, why are they called V frames? No question is a silly question! I cannot say for certain why V style frames were so lettered but of course Westinghouse made lever frames for years and presumably the first production design was A. LT had B, K, N and N2 (converted N from manual to remote operation) as well as V and types from other manufacturers. I am only familiar with N/N2 and V types which I worked on, on DR/Picc/Jube/Met. |
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Post by Vernon on Jun 25, 2015 18:28:32 GMT
Perhaps a silly question, why are they called V frames? No question is a silly question! I cannot say for certain why V style frames were so lettered but of course Westinghouse made lever frames for years and presumably the first production design was A. LT had B, K, N and N2 (converted N from manual to remote operation) as well as V and types from other manufacturers. I am only familiar with N/N2 and V types which I worked on, on DR/Picc/Jube/Met. We put our heads together on this one and our best guess is V for vertical. |
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Post by railtechnician on Jun 25, 2015 19:04:57 GMT
No question is a silly question! I cannot say for certain why V style frames were so lettered but of course Westinghouse made lever frames for years and presumably the first production design was A. LT had B, K, N and N2 (converted N from manual to remote operation) as well as V and types from other manufacturers. I am only familiar with N/N2 and V types which I worked on, on DR/Picc/Jube/Met. We put our heads together on this one and our best guess is V for vertical. Possible of course but I suspect that only Westinghouse has the definitive answer! |
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Post by dave1 on Jun 26, 2015 8:04:05 GMT
No question is a silly question! I cannot say for certain why V style frames were so lettered but of course Westinghouse made lever frames for years and presumably the first production design was A. LT had B, K, N and N2 (converted N from manual to remote operation) as well as V and types from other manufacturers. I am only familiar with N/N2 and V types which I worked on, on DR/Picc/Jube/Met. We put our heads together on this one and our best guess is V for vertical. Thanks vertical does fit but then what about the other frames B etc perhaps it was just pure luck that they used V. |
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Post by dave1 on Jun 26, 2015 8:04:32 GMT
We put our heads together on this one and our best guess is V for vertical. Possible of course but I suspect that only Westinghouse has the definitive answer! I think you are right. |
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Post by Vernon on Jun 26, 2015 9:24:40 GMT
Possible of course but I suspect that only Westinghouse has the definitive answer! I think you are right. I did say best guess. I looked up a lot of information regarding the V frame and found no definitive answer whatsoever. |
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Post by railtechnician on Jun 26, 2015 18:06:15 GMT
I did say best guess. I looked up a lot of information regarding the V frame and found no definitive answer whatsoever. Exactly, hence the info that I offered, the facts that I am aware of. |
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Post by hellocontrol on Jun 27, 2015 8:18:19 GMT
Thanks for all the reply's, regarding what V stood for I guess we will never know as LU/Westinghouse records are not that good they have thrown out loads although they are supposed to see what historical value if any.
With all the other frame letters I guess it was just pot luck.
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Post by railtechnician on Jun 27, 2015 13:03:21 GMT
Thanks for all the reply's, regarding what V stood for I guess we will never know as LU/Westinghouse records are not that good they have thrown out loads although they are supposed to see what historical value if any. With all the other frame letters I guess it was just pot luck. I simply think that Westinghouse liked to designate frame types alphabetically, I am aware that there were Westinghouse L and M frames used on NR and I expect other designations were perhaps used in other parts of the world. Westinghouse used letter designations on DC relays, LT/LU had/has Westinghouse style B, C, D, F and Q relays, there may have been others but those are the common types that I encountered on clock, tunnel telephone and double cut signal circuitry. AC time relays were/are styles 'LT' and 'N'Similarly Westinghouse delta units were/are lettered according to type A, B, C, D etc |
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Post by hellocontrol on Jun 27, 2015 13:23:41 GMT
Thanks for all the reply's, regarding what V stood for I guess we will never know as LU/Westinghouse records are not that good they have thrown out loads although they are supposed to see what historical value if any. With all the other frame letters I guess it was just pot luck. I simply think that Westinghouse liked to designate frame types alphabetically, I am aware that there were Westinghouse L and M frames used on NR and I expect other designations were perhaps used in other parts of the world. Westinghouse used letter designations on DC relays, LT/LU had/has Westinghouse style B, C, D, F and Q relays, there may have been others but those are the common types that I encountered on clock, tunnel telephone and double cut signal circuitry. AC time relays were/are styles 'LT' and 'N'Similarly Westinghouse delta units were/are lettered according to type A, B, C, D etc There was an L frame on LT at Wembley Park. The only comparison I can do at the moment is that in America they have alphabet agencies, CIA/FBI/NSA. |
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