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Post by GentlemanJim on Nov 14, 2014 19:49:25 GMT
By all accounts it would illuminate to read "Call signal cabin"
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Post by hellocontrol on Nov 14, 2014 20:49:33 GMT
Another signal was in Kennington loop I am sure there was a sign and a bell.
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 15, 2014 0:33:25 GMT
Tooting Broadway had the Push to reset Circuit Breaker plunger if the juice came off in the siding, although this was an enamelled sign below the plunger. Some Northern line open section sidings had the donkey dick plunger that you pressed to let the Regulator / programme machine know that you were ready to depart (or, in the case of High Barnet, what road you were on). To be honest I haven't worked at Tooting Broadway since the late 1980s (Victoria line train radio test site along with Tooting Bec and Colliers Wood!) and really cannot recall the sidng CB arrangements. In that regard I never had to test the siding T/T circuit there so I don't know what the arrangement was. In general terms a siding T/T control panel would be located close to a Station Supervisor office or Running SM office (Hyde Park Corner being an exception with the panel on the east end of the westbound and the supervisor being in the ticket hall but there was an extension bell outside his office in the false ceiling) e.g. at Victoria (Vic) it was in the ticket hall SS office/ops room and at King's Cross (Vic) it was in the bullring ops room (these both being systems that I installed). The siding T/T 'panel' may or may not have been a single self contained unit as at HPC, WGN, VIC but could be built into a desk as at KGX or have been separate units located closely together. There would invariably be T/T Trip, T/T Reset, CB Trip and CB Reset plungers and indications at the control locations regardless of the generation or type of equipment. Strangely I can no longer recall the arrangement at Bakerloo E&C although I worked there often albeit on everything except siding T/T (I rewired the entire Bakerloo T/T system from E&C to QPK but siding T/T is always a self contained separate system). Donkey Kong/Elephant Trunk plungers for train ready to start would also be shown on the cabin or IMR diagram. Not all such plungers were foot plungers e.g. at King's Cross Picc the east-west reverse over 6W required the Sykes plunger behind the tail wall enamelled panel to be plunged to clear the L2 route.
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 15, 2014 1:09:13 GMT
By all accounts it would illuminate to read "Call signal cabin" That makes sense although back in the day such facilities were the exception to the rule, most TAS/SPT were one way circuits i.e. driver to signalman/regulator with no means of call origination in the reverse direction. This was because bells would not be heard unless a driver was very near the 'ringing' phone. I recall that Finchley Road had a Sykes plunger in the southbound telephone kiosk which illuminated a 'come to telephone' sign at Met Swiss Cottage but I can't recall any others although there must've been a few around the combine. On the Victoria line the stick phones were fitted with bells and could be called from the station headwall panels. With the installation of AP Electronics motorway telephone systems as TAS/SPT as at Upminster, High St Kensington, Mansion House, South Harrow, Ruislip, Rickmansworth, Heathrow, Stanmore, Finchley Road, Willesden, Neasden, Wembley Park, Elephant & Castle (Bak), Paddington (Bak), Piccadilly Circus (Bak), Baker Street (Bak & Met), Queens Park, Swiss Cottage (Met), Farringdon, Aldgate (in Farringdon cabin) it was possible to test the lines to all the stick phones and to call them all. I installed and/or maintained all the above systems of this type except Upminster (this was the very first site where the system was installed circa 1979) during the late 1980s/early 1990s. The Met/Jub systems fell into disrepair during the JLE project when it took over maintenance of the Met/Jub joint systems and Stanmore and subsequently new systems were installed on the Met while we had to beg, borrow, make do and mend the Jub systems (the parts had to be sourced from redundant Met systems as AP.E went bust and Postfield who took over spares manufacture stopped producing replacement parts) as the intended replacements were never commissioned by JLE! During the 1987 Bakerloo resignalling it was decided that 'come to telephone signs' would be fitted at each stick phone, one sign at the phone and another 5 metres ahead to cater for SPADs. Ringing a phone automatically illuminated the appropriate signs via a ringing detector in the master sign, the signal 100v local being used to power the signs. Prior to this if 'come to telephone' signs were fitted the standard was one sign only, at the telephone.
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Post by Nortube on Nov 15, 2014 11:10:08 GMT
Another signal was in Kennington loop I am sure there was a sign and a bell. I was told of the bell, probably when I was training at Motorman (or even Guard), but it was something I'd never had experience of. Apparently it was at the loop outer home (B36A), which is where the third train in the loop used to wait for the train in front to depart platform 1. Rumour had it that it was there to wake drivers up who'd fallen asleep there. Whilst (presumably) not it's correct purpose, I'm sure that it must have been used for just that in the past. In past timetables, trains were normally given around 15 mins off-peak to go round the loop. After departing the SB platform, the train would be held at A50, then A52, then finally at B36A - the loop could hold three trains. In the good old / bad old days when trains were frequently cancelled due to staff shortages, it was not unknown for a train to depart platform 2 and have a clear run to B36A and then have to wait there for 10 - 15 mins. Other than making use of the toilet facilities in the time honoured manner, there was nothing else for the driver to do and so the driver would be sitting there in a warm tunnel and tend to doze off. I'll have to look up the photos of B36A and see if there was any remaining evidence of the bell / sign. I assume that it was taken out of service when train radio was introduced, if not before.
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 15, 2014 12:01:42 GMT
"Other than making use of the toilet facilities in the time honoured manner,..."
Ah yes the paper bags wedged in the cable run in the loop were well known to engineering staff having to run or recover cable there. The loop was one part of the Northern that I never had occasion to work in or the opportunity to explore although one of the first sites that I ever worked at on signal new works night shift back in 1977 was Kennington. Back then we were running asbestos sheathed cabling from the very bowels of the station deep below the running tunnels where the floodgate relay rooms were located up to platform/track level. In the early 1980s I was based at Kennington as a Comms chargehand, we had a temporary depot off the ticket hall as an outstation of Earl's Court Telephone New Works depot from where we installed stage 1 station PA & CCTV equipment at Tottenham Court Road, Piccadilly Circus, Waterloo and Baker Street principally and kept a steel stores there too where we prefabricated and painted the speaker brackets that may still be seen at outer area stations holding double ended Neumann loudspeakers (the grey toughened plastic variety) to lamp posts or attached to various parts of station infrastructure. I think I last worked there in the early 1990s as a Comms Class 1 inspector when I was running the telephone cable uplift programme on all lines.
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Post by Nortube on Nov 15, 2014 12:24:41 GMT
The Northern line also had Train Ready to Start and / or Rear Cab Clear plungers. Off the top of my head: Stockwell SB had a TRTS at the wrong road starter. Whilst this gave the Regulator an indication that the driver was ready, I think it was also used to clear the signal if automatic reversing was in operation.
Charing Cross had a RCC plunger on the SB headwall which the driver had to press if the train was reversing. If they didn't, the wrong road starter wouldn't clear. If CX was being worked locally from the signal cabin, could be used to have the same effect as the plunger being pressed. Likewise the Regulator had the same push button facility.
At High Barnet, there were plungers at the north end of each platform. If the train was going to depot, the driver had to plunge within 3(?) minutes or the train may be routed back south.
After Moorgate, before the introduction of multi policemen in the termini platforms, traction control was fitted which, by means of resistors, limited traction current supply to the platforms. Full traction current was only available when the starter or shunt cleared. If it was necessary to temporary restore full current to the platform, then a plunger could be held in which held the circuit breaker closed. A similar thing is / was in operation for traction fused sidings, such as Colindale and Golders Green 28 Rd.
Plungers seem to have been used for a variety of reasons as a way for staff to interact with the system
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Post by Nortube on Nov 15, 2014 12:33:44 GMT
The bell: On reflection, there was never an enammelled sign there, and there's no evidence in the photo of an illuminated 'phone home' type of sign, so perhaps the rumour of being used to wake the driver up was the real reason.
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 16, 2014 1:33:23 GMT
The Northern line also had Train Ready to Start and / or Rear Cab Clear plungers. Off the top of my head: Stockwell SB had a TRTS at the wrong road starter. Whilst this gave the Regulator an indication that the driver was ready, I think it was also used to clear the signal if automatic reversing was in operation. Charing Cross had a RCC plunger on the SB headwall which the driver had to press if the train was reversing. If they didn't, the wrong road starter wouldn't clear. If CX was being worked locally from the signal cabin, could be used to have the same effect as the plunger being pressed. Likewise the Regulator had the same push button facility. At High Barnet, there were plungers at the north end of each platform. If the train was going to depot, the driver had to plunge within 3(?) minutes or the train may be routed back south. After Moorgate, before the introduction of multi policemen in the termini platforms, traction control was fitted which, by means of resistors, limited traction current supply to the platforms. Full traction current was only available when the starter or shunt cleared. If it was necessary to temporary restore full current to the platform, then a plunger could be held in which held the circuit breaker closed. A similar thing is / was in operation for traction fused sidings, such as Colindale and Golders Green 28 Rd. Plungers seem to have been used for a variety of reasons as a way for staff to interact with the system Surely there were plungers for the depot outlet roads too as we had on the PIcc. Then there was the shunter's plunger(s) for accepting trains into the depot. Siding Traction fuses were a frequent casualty at Acton Town East sidings as drivers wound up the handle to depart. Yep plungers were used all over the system for all sorts of functions for both safety and non-safety systems e.g. T/T headwall/tailwall section ahead and section in rear and of course section plungers on the Vic line which had no T/T telephones except one fitted at Oxford Circus following the fire there. The Victoria line also set the standard for having operations rooms (then known as Station Agent, with Code Destroyer and T/T Plungers on the telephone panels, the panels being duplicated in the Ticket Offices). By the 1990s station operations rooms were established as the norm for station upgrades/modernisations and it then became new practice to install T/T plungers in all new SORs and upgrades to existing SORs. My very first job after transferring to Picc line Engineering was to commission ops room T/T plungers at all stations from Caledonian Road to Turnpike Lane, subsequently I commissioned eight T/T plungers (4 Northern and 4 Picc) in the Leicester Square SOR. Plungers were also installed in Ticket Collectors Boxes to activate the Emergency Yodalarm, back in the day these were addons which we fitted to TCBs, these days GLAPs come with such facilities built in at manufacture. PIPs (Passenger Information Points) were introduced on the Victoria line as built, these used platform intercom plungers to call the station agent in the operations room. The next generation as installed at Oxford Circus and the east end Central line sites, PAPs (Passenger Assistance Points) used a plunger of a different kind, these being the Neumann Red Emergency Pull plungers which called the ops room/station supervisor and also zoomed in the nearest camera so that the caller could be seen on the CCTV. These days the now very familiar Ascom 'Pill Box' PHPs (Passenger Help Points) seen all over the system is AFAIK still the latest generation, the first installations having been in service for almost 20 years. These of course have the familiar red plungers. Of course yellow plungers were used to operate the OMO signals (red cross on white background in a yellow signal head on a yellow diamond display board) and warning bells but vthey were never commissioned unlike the Victoria line emergency plungers which were originally code destroyers. So yes plungers were used for many things and not just for staff interaction with various safety and non-safety systems. I have no doubt that I have forgotten many uses of plungers.
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Post by hellocontrol on Nov 16, 2014 7:53:44 GMT
The bell: On reflection, there was never an enammelled sign there, and there's no evidence in the photo of an illuminated 'phone home' type of sign, so perhaps the rumour of being used to wake the driver up was the real reason. Thanks for the photo I thought there was also a sign or illuminated one but there are no old bits left there so it was only a bell. Although I now remember that there were two illuminated signs at the NB CX starter. Any photos?
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Post by hellocontrol on Nov 16, 2014 7:55:26 GMT
The Northern line also had Train Ready to Start and / or Rear Cab Clear plungers. Off the top of my head: Stockwell SB had a TRTS at the wrong road starter. Whilst this gave the Regulator an indication that the driver was ready, I think it was also used to clear the signal if automatic reversing was in operation. Charing Cross had a RCC plunger on the SB headwall which the driver had to press if the train was reversing. If they didn't, the wrong road starter wouldn't clear. If CX was being worked locally from the signal cabin, could be used to have the same effect as the plunger being pressed. Likewise the Regulator had the same push button facility. At High Barnet, there were plungers at the north end of each platform. If the train was going to depot, the driver had to plunge within 3(?) minutes or the train may be routed back south. After Moorgate, before the introduction of multi policemen in the termini platforms, traction control was fitted which, by means of resistors, limited traction current supply to the platforms. Full traction current was only available when the starter or shunt cleared. If it was necessary to temporary restore full current to the platform, then a plunger could be held in which held the circuit breaker closed. A similar thing is / was in operation for traction fused sidings, such as Colindale and Golders Green 28 Rd. Plungers seem to have been used for a variety of reasons as a way for staff to interact with the system Surely there were plungers for the depot outlet roads too as we had on the PIcc. Then there was the shunter's plunger(s) for accepting trains into the depot. Siding Traction fuses were a frequent casualty at Acton Town East sidings as drivers wound up the handle to depart. Yep plungers were used all over the system for all sorts of functions for both safety and non-safety systems e.g. T/T headwall/tailwall section ahead and section in rear and of course section plungers on the Vic line which had no T/T telephones except one fitted at Oxford Circus following the fire there. The Victoria line also set the standard for having operations rooms (then known as Station Agent, with Code Destroyer and T/T Plungers on the telephone panels, the panels being duplicated in the Ticket Offices). By the 1990s station operations rooms were established as the norm for station upgrades/modernisations and it then became new practice to install T/T plungers in all new SORs and upgrades to existing SORs. My very first job after transferring to Picc line Engineering was to commission ops room T/T plungers at all stations from Caledonian Road to Turnpike Lane, subsequently I commissioned eight T/T plungers (4 Northern and 4 Picc) in the Leicester Square SOR. Plungers were also installed in Ticket Collectors Boxes to activate the Emergency Yodalarm, back in the day these were addons which we fitted to TCBs, these days GLAPs come with such facilities built in at manufacture. PIPs (Passenger Information Points) were introduced on the Victoria line as built, these used platform intercom plungers to call the station agent in the operations room. The next generation as installed at Oxford Circus and the east end Central line sites, PAPs (Passenger Assistance Points) used a plunger of a different kind, these being the Neumann Red Emergency Pull plungers which called the ops room/station supervisor and also zoomed in the nearest camera so that the caller could be seen on the CCTV. These days the now very familiar Ascom 'Pill Box' PHPs (Passenger Help Points) seen all over the system is AFAIK still the latest generation, the first installations having been in service for almost 20 years. These of course have the familiar red plungers. Of course yellow plungers were used to operate the OMO signals (red cross on white background in a yellow signal head on a yellow diamond display board) and warning bells but vthey were never commissioned unlike the Victoria line emergency plungers which were originally code destroyers. So yes plungers were used for many things and not just for staff interaction with various safety and non-safety systems. I have no doubt that I have forgotten many uses of plungers. There must have been and more than likely still are lots of plungers for all different reasons.
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Post by Nortube on Nov 16, 2014 22:43:45 GMT
I've looked through some of the photos I have, but I can only find a close-up of CX starter - C3. It's possible that there there may be some signs out of shot. There should be a Route Secured sign there. There is also a reverse or Shunt and Reverse sign near there somewhere, possibly at the headwall Rear Cab Clear plunger in the SB south headwall cabinet CX signal main(?) circuit breaker reset plunger
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Post by Nortube on Nov 16, 2014 22:46:30 GMT
A close up of the CB reset plunger and, whilst at Charing Cross, the escape hatch from the floodgate control area between the two tunnels
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Post by hellocontrol on Nov 17, 2014 13:48:08 GMT
I've looked through some of the photos I have, but I can only find a close-up of CX starter - C3. It's possible that there there may be some signs out of shot. There should be a Route Secured sign there. There is also a reverse or Shunt and Reverse sign near there somewhere, possibly at the headwall Rear Cab Clear plunger in the SB south headwall cabinet CX signal main(?) circuit breaker reset plunger I know at some places the plunger was situated in some weird and wonderful places.
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Post by hellocontrol on Nov 17, 2014 13:49:52 GMT
A close up of the CB reset plunger and, whilst at Charing Cross, the escape hatch from the floodgate control area between the two tunnels How things have changed at some places, I can remember the old style circuit breaker reset device. I know the older style floodgates had the escape hatches but don't think the newer ones had this?
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