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Post by GentlemanJim on Nov 6, 2014 16:22:00 GMT
At some time in the future I will need to source 2 original or similar Bakelite style handsets as installed in Signal Cabins.
I'm sure RT will come back on this one but any help in sourcing these would be helpful. |
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 7, 2014 9:31:09 GMT
At some time in the future I will need to source 2 original or similar Bakelite style handsets as installed in Signal Cabins.
I'm sure RT will come back on this one but any help in sourcing these would be helpful. First port of call would surely be LUL SE&C or the various telephone maintenance contractors although having said that I did try and secure a contact, through some of my former right hand men who were in charge of Metronet Comms assets, from which to source TAS/SPT kit for EOR several years ago. All the maintenance and upgrade work was being done by contractors who also disposed of the redundant LU comms equipment and they were apparently unhelpful according to the former EOR Signal Manager. Ebay is your friend as long as you know what you are looking for, check out the Radio, Television and Telephone category in the Telephone sub section. Telephones are also found in Business, Office & Industrial although what is found there are office telephones and systems, that said sometimes vintage phones are posted there in error. There is also the Telephones to be found under Home Furnishing although they are usually modern phones for today's network and anything 'vintage' found there is more likely to be a "decorator's" item which may or may not be working or complete! While bakelite telephone handsets as found on 200 and 300 type telephones were commonly used in all areas of LT/LU including trackside TAS/SPT, tunnel telephone handsets, signalman/regulator, line controller and myriad other telephone panels they came with standalone cradles of one kind or another. Matching bakelite standalone cradles for bakelite handsets are as rare as hen's teeth probably because they were not that robust. I have seen the odd one or two sold on Ebay along with lots of other kit I recall being used at LT/LU. BR/NR telephone kit from the various regions pops up quite often although one has to beware what those of us in the collecting fraternity call 'bitsa' phones, most of which have been constructed from parts, many of which were never genuine original telephones such as those made from wooden bellset 1A boxes with a mining instrument handset clipped on the side and described as railway telephones! Of course even the GPO issued 'new' telephones which were not original but rebuilt/refurbished from the parts of deconstructed recovered instruments in the GPO factories at Holloway in London (stamped FHR) and at Cwmcarn in Wales stamped (FWR). Of course the GPO did a proper job of refurbishment and I have two fine examples of unissued GPO 200 type instruments built in 1961 in my collection of some 200 otherwise relatively modern phones. I recall my earliest working days as a young PO Telephones apprentice more than 40 years ago, when working with Sub's App's Maintenance section, how on GVB duty (van cleaning and clearance) we dumped all the old recovered bakelite phones in the scrap bunkers at the local West Green TEC stores just around the corner from Turnpike Lane station. I look back upon it now as sacrilege, at the time having no intrinsic interest in old phones and equipment I saw it simply as progress !!! Of course at LT/LU over the years and long before I became interested in telephones as a hobby I recovered lots of kit that also went for scrap and I also recall standing by at Wood Lane stores in the late 1980s as it was cleared of brand new equipment straight into the scrap skips because the stores was closing down and nobody was going to draw the items unless I deemed them to still be required (the introduction of the MD110 telephone system made lots of stock items superfluous) and was willing to write requisitions on the spot! Subsequently we did much the same with our own section stores at South Kensington station, Stamford Brook station, Ravenscourt Park, Earls Court depot, Earls Court station, Leicester Square station and at a number of chargehand stores which had to be vacated as Operating dept wanted the space and of course as Engineering as a whole was being downsized and centralised from the former depots to Signal House at Acton Works. |
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Post by GentlemanJim on Nov 7, 2014 10:40:41 GMT
At some time in the future I will need to source 2 original or similar Bakelite style handsets as installed in Signal Cabins.
I'm sure RT will come back on this one but any help in sourcing these would be helpful. First port of call would surely be LUL SE&C or the various telephone maintenance contractors although having said that I did try and secure a contact, through some of my former right hand men who were in charge of Metronet Comms assets, from which to source TAS/SPT kit for EOR several years ago. All the maintenance and upgrade work was being done by contractors who also disposed of the redundant LU comms equipment and they were apparently unhelpful according to the former EOR Signal Manager. Ebay is your friend as long as you know what you are looking for, check out the Radio, Television and Telephone category in the Telephone sub section. Telephones are also found in Business, Office & Industrial although what is found there are office telephones and systems, that said sometimes vintage phones are posted there in error. There is also the Telephones to be found under Home Furnishing although they are usually modern phones for today's network and anything 'vintage' found there is more likely to be a "decorator's" item which may or may not be working or complete! While bakelite telephone handsets as found on 200 and 300 type telephones were commonly used in all areas of LT/LU including trackside TAS/SPT, tunnel telephone handsets, signalman/regulator, line controller and myriad other telephone panels they came with standalone cradles of one kind or another. Matching bakelite standalone cradles for bakelite handsets are as rare as hen's teeth probably because they were not that robust. I have seen the odd one or two sold on Ebay along with lots of other kit I recall being used at LT/LU. BR/NR telephone kit from the various regions pops up quite often although one has to beware what those of us in the collecting fraternity call 'bitsa' phones, most of which have been constructed from parts, many of which were never genuine original telephones such as those made from wooden bellset 1A boxes with a mining instrument handset clipped on the side and described as railway telephones! Of course even the GPO issued 'new' telephones which were not original but rebuilt/refurbished from the parts of deconstructed recovered instruments in the GPO factories at Holloway in London (stamped FHR) and at Cwmcarn in Wales stamped (FWR). Of course the GPO did a proper job of refurbishment and I have two fine examples of unissued GPO 200 type instruments built in 1961 in my collection of some 200 otherwise relatively modern phones. I recall my earliest working days as a young PO Telephones apprentice more than 40 years ago, when working with Sub's App's Maintenance section, how on GVB duty (van cleaning and clearance) we dumped all the old recovered bakelite phones in the scrap bunkers at the local West Green TEC stores just around the corner from Turnpike Lane station. I look back upon it now as sacrilege, at the time having no intrinsic interest in old phones and equipment I saw it simply as progress !!! Of course at LT/LU over the years and long before I became interested in telephones as a hobby I recovered lots of kit that also went for scrap and I also recall standing by at Wood Lane stores in the late 1980s as it was cleared of brand new equipment straight into the scrap skips because the stores was closing down and nobody was going to draw the items unless I deemed them to still be required (the introduction of the MD110 telephone system made lots of stock items superfluous) and was willing to write requisitions on the spot! Subsequently we did much the same with our own section stores at South Kensington station, Stamford Brook station, Ravenscourt Park, Earls Court depot, Earls Court station, Leicester Square station and at a number of chargehand stores which had to be vacated as Operating dept wanted the space and of course as Engineering as a whole was being downsized and centralised from the former depots to Signal House at Acton Works. Attachments:
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Post by Nortube on Nov 7, 2014 10:41:38 GMT
If they were the same as the driver's handset, years ago you would have found them (and their boxes) scattered all around Morden depot where they'd been flung.
"Have to cancel the train, I don't have a handset"
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Post by GentlemanJim on Nov 7, 2014 10:43:48 GMT
Hmmmm not sure why the picture is up above......
I've looked on Ebay but to be honest I don't really know what I'm looking for, style, model number etc. I'll try LU as they might just have a couple knocking about, I think we'd all be surprised on that one.
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 8, 2014 8:27:26 GMT
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Post by GentlemanJim on Nov 8, 2014 10:20:22 GMT
It certainly has seen better days RT but is recoverable. Would have been installed in Hainault when the Frame was built and the Cabin opened circa 1948-9.
I'll have a look through what you've posted but I think the first port of call will be via my contacts in LU. With the closure of the Northern Line IMR's, East Finchley comes to mind, there may well be some stuff out there if it hasn't already been removed.
I've just noticed the 'bridge' cords and one of the cable rollers are missing as well. The handsets were attached to a very long retractable lead so one could use the phone while at the other end of the Frame.
I could always send it to you if you fancy a winter project 
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 9, 2014 0:32:27 GMT
It certainly has seen better days RT but is recoverable. Would have been installed in Hainault when the Frame was built and the Cabin opened circa 1948-9.
I'll have a look through what you've posted but I think the first port of call will be via my contacts in LU. With the closure of the Northern Line IMR's, East Finchley comes to mind, there may well be some stuff out there if it hasn't already been removed.
I've just noticed the 'bridge' cords and one of the cable rollers are missing as well. The handsets were attached to a very long retractable lead so one could use the phone while at the other end of the Frame.
I could always send it to you if you fancy a winter project
Yes it is certainly recoverable, I would certainly try to get spares from redundant cabins if you can, as you will see they can cost an arm and a leg on Ebay. In that regard one Ebay seller is well known to collectors, his Ebay handle is 'autofloor' and he has containers full of vintage GPO/PO/BT telephone equipment in several parts of the country although he is based in Portsmouth. He is always worth checking out as his huge stocks of parts came direct from BT auctions and many are new old stock, he has keys, lamps, opals, cords etc for that panel. I imagine long retractable cords could be a problem these days, such things tended to disappear fast when H&S became an issue. For example the lead lamps on retractable cords in IMRs were disconnected years ago and where we required telephones to reach around the relay rooms and IMRs for fault finding purposes we ran extension cabling and multiple plugin points (originally jacks 95A in Strowger exchange days and secondary LJUs for new work after the introduction of MD110 telephone system) to obviate trip hazards. Indeed one of my very first jobs as a PLE TO was to install such facilities at the larger Picc Line IMRs.
As far as winter projects go, much as I love telephones and telephone equipment, I have a backlog of hardware and software tasks to perform on my private telephone system which have been on my various 2DO lists for several years including the design, install and build of an electromechanical demo telephone system to be connected to the international telephone collectors network, CNet, and the cleaning, refurbishment and reassembly of several dozen 1980s Viscount telephones which have been in pieces on the kitchen table since I took them apart about four months ago as well as several other pure telephone projects. I also have to rebuild my LAN and the many devices, including multiple computers and numerous telephone ATAs, connected thereto. Then there is my very complex Asterisk server dialplan which has been a work in progress on and off since Christmas 2006 and which connects international CNet to my private system via VOIP.
Beyond the above I have other lists including replication of the LT Strowger telephone network in a virtual server and hooking that up to the already existing and online virtual server replicant of the old BR/NR Strowger ETD national telephone network.
It is an unfortunate fact that everyday life very much dictates how much time I have for my hobbies and the vast majority of my time is taken up with domestic chores so my own projects continually fall behind and my 2DO lists now seem to have lives of their own!
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Post by hellocontrol on Nov 9, 2014 12:01:15 GMT
At some time in the future I will need to source 2 original or similar Bakelite style handsets as installed in Signal Cabins.
I'm sure RT will come back on this one but any help in sourcing these would be helpful. RT has made a few suggestions and you have also said about your contacts, perhaps the Museum has enough spares? I know they have so many things they are running out of space. |
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Post by GentlemanJim on Nov 9, 2014 12:28:56 GMT
At some time in the future I will need to source 2 original or similar Bakelite style handsets as installed in Signal Cabins.
I'm sure RT will come back on this one but any help in sourcing these would be helpful. RT has made a few suggestions and you have also said about your contacts, perhaps the Museum has enough spares? I know they have so many things they are running out of space. Indeed there are now more options to follow than I had at the start, we'll get there eventually.
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Post by GentlemanJim on Nov 9, 2014 18:58:09 GMT
It certainly has seen better days RT but is recoverable. Would have been installed in Hainault when the Frame was built and the Cabin opened circa 1948-9.
I'll have a look through what you've posted but I think the first port of call will be via my contacts in LU. With the closure of the Northern Line IMR's, East Finchley comes to mind, there may well be some stuff out there if it hasn't already been removed.
I've just noticed the 'bridge' cords and one of the cable rollers are missing as well. The handsets were attached to a very long retractable lead so one could use the phone while at the other end of the Frame.
I could always send it to you if you fancy a winter project
Yes it is certainly recoverable, I would certainly try to get spares from redundant cabins if you can, as you will see they can cost an arm and a leg on Ebay. In that regard one Ebay seller is well known to collectors, his Ebay handle is 'autofloor' and he has containers full of vintage GPO/PO/BT telephone equipment in several parts of the country although he is based in Portsmouth. He is always worth checking out as his huge stocks of parts came direct from BT auctions and many are new old stock, he has keys, lamps, opals, cords etc for that panel. I imagine long retractable cords could be a problem these days, such things tended to disappear fast when H&S became an issue. For example the lead lamps on retractable cords in IMRs were disconnected years ago and where we required telephones to reach around the relay rooms and IMRs for fault finding purposes we ran extension cabling and multiple plugin points (originally jacks 95A in Strowger exchange days and secondary LJUs for new work after the introduction of MD110 telephone system) to obviate trip hazards. Indeed one of my very first jobs as a PLE TO was to install such facilities at the larger Picc Line IMRs.
As far as winter projects go, much as I love telephones and telephone equipment, I have a backlog of hardware and software tasks to perform on my private telephone system which have been on my various 2DO lists for several years including the design, install and build of an electromechanical demo telephone system to be connected to the international telephone collectors network, CNet, and the cleaning, refurbishment and reassembly of several dozen 1980s Viscount telephones which have been in pieces on the kitchen table since I took them apart about four months ago as well as several other pure telephone projects. I also have to rebuild my LAN and the many devices, including multiple computers and numerous telephone ATAs, connected thereto. Then there is my very complex Asterisk server dialplan which has been a work in progress on and off since Christmas 2006 and which connects international CNet to my private system via VOIP.
Beyond the above I have other lists including replication of the LT Strowger telephone network in a virtual server and hooking that up to the already existing and online virtual server replicant of the old BR/NR Strowger ETD national telephone network.
It is an unfortunate fact that everyday life very much dictates how much time I have for my hobbies and the vast majority of my time is taken up with domestic chores so my own projects continually fall behind and my 2DO lists now seem to have lives of their own!
Attachments:
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 9, 2014 19:22:45 GMT
GJ,
Yep a GPO 300 type or equivalent telephone from one of the manufacturers with the correct type of handset for your telephone panel. It rather looks as though someone didn't know how to undo the mouthpiece to remove/replace the transmitter no. 13 or handset cord. A quick glance suggests that, that is a 1950s made instrument but it could be older with a replacement handset cord.
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Post by GentlemanJim on Nov 9, 2014 19:50:45 GMT
GJ, Yep a GPO 300 type or equivalent telephone from one of the manufacturers with the correct type of handset for your telephone panel. It rather looks as though someone didn't know how to undo the mouthpiece to remove/replace the transmitter no. 13 or handset cord. A quick glance suggests that, that is a 1950s made instrument but it could be older with a replacement handset cord. I did put text with the post..... oh well.
I bought this about 10 years ago purely for nostalgia, paid a £30 for it.
Yes the cord is wrong and so is the plug in lead as I believe there is now a replica of the original, the mouthpiece was broken in transit during my return from France. It does work but it's heavy to hold for long periods.
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 10, 2014 0:16:28 GMT
GJ, Yep a GPO 300 type or equivalent telephone from one of the manufacturers with the correct type of handset for your telephone panel. It rather looks as though someone didn't know how to undo the mouthpiece to remove/replace the transmitter no. 13 or handset cord. A quick glance suggests that, that is a 1950s made instrument but it could be older with a replacement handset cord. I did put text with the post..... oh well.
I bought this about 10 years ago purely for nostalgia, paid a £30 for it.
Yes the cord is wrong and so is the plug in lead as I believe there is now a replica of the original, the mouthpiece was broken in transit during my return from France. It does work but it's heavy to hold for long periods.
GJ, I have no idea where your text went, I thought it was just me that was certain I had posted something and later discovered that I had imagined it! I would swear that whole posts have disappeared into the ether at times too. £30 10 years ago was a high price, I have one which I bought last year for £25 + p&p on Ebay but it is a poor example of a 1950s instrument which I will have to strip and rebuild when I get a round tuite! Unfortunately I have lots of phones to get around to working on and I spend fortunes buying spares. Seems odd buying a UK phone in France, I have never been there (I'm not a holiday type, haven't had one since I went to Ibiza in 1973). However, I have some nice condition French Socotel S63 desk instruments (1970s/1980s plastic similar to UK 700 types) in my collection bought on Ebay.fr. I also nhave both East and West German instruments bought on Ebay.de, US inhstruments bought on Ebay.com and also a nice Swedish instrument which has the reverse dial as used on the early automatic rotary telephone systems used in Stockholm, New Zealand and Australia. I have a contact who makes cords for GPO 200 and 300 type phones, back in the late 1980s he was my right hand man when I was working in 55, Broadway WOS sorting out the phones on the refurbished 3rd or 4th floor. He has been in the telephone industry for some 50 years and worked for the GPO and many other telephone companies as well as his shortish stint with LU Comms Installation. These days he lives in Columbia, however, he stills makes cords and sells them on Ebay UK under the handle 'mawdsjeff'. They are not cheap but he does a quality job hard to differentiate from an original and he also makes to order if asked. |
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