|
Post by dave1 on Oct 10, 2014 12:20:52 GMT
Anyone know when this will open as it is now finished, I know none of the signalling upgrade is finished what with the re-letting of the tender. 2018 is not that far away.
|
|
|
Post by GentlemanJim on Oct 10, 2014 13:42:57 GMT
Anyone know when this will open as it is now finished, I know none of the signalling upgrade is finished what with the re-letting of the tender. 2018 is not that far away. Add 3-5 years to the quoted opening date, that would probably be about right knowing LU
|
|
drico
Station Inspector
Thank you driver, off clips.
Posts: 202
|
Post by drico on Oct 10, 2014 17:42:13 GMT
Anyone know when this will open as it is now finished, I know none of the signalling upgrade is finished what with the re-letting of the tender. 2018 is not that far away. Has it started yet, well when it does double the number of years LUL tell you it will take then you may have the opening date if you are lucky ?
|
|
|
Post by railtechnician on Oct 10, 2014 18:41:13 GMT
Hammersmith SCC - Is this for the Picc or the H&C ?
LT/LU have never really got to grips with the concept of permanent centralisation. Even though locations last for decades they may still be seen as temporary because they are never permanent.
With modern technology and remote control it should be possible to locate an SCC or Control Centre at any location within a matter of days especially as the railway has a superb communications network such that any system can be ported anywhere via either intranet or dedicated channels in the transmission systems.
From a technological standpoint it all boils down to interfacing the various systems to a bidi muitiplex system which is connected to the remote location where appropriate software sends commands and receives remote data. It can all be done on PCs. Fortunes in time and expenditure might be realised if the right people put their heads together but IMHO the right people are no longer employed and all the wrong people are calling the shots!
|
|
|
Post by dave1 on Oct 11, 2014 11:48:15 GMT
Anyone know when this will open as it is now finished, I know none of the signalling upgrade is finished what with the re-letting of the tender. 2018 is not that far away. Add 3-5 years to the quoted opening date, that would probably be about right knowing LU If the signalling upgrade as originally planned it would be open, so as you say put say 5 years then you get around 2018. The building has been finished quite a while I last saw it 6 months ago, but the fitting out even for some sort of temporary arrangement you think they would have put something in there. I am hoping to be in the area next month but I suspect it won't look any different.
|
|
|
Post by dave1 on Oct 11, 2014 11:49:35 GMT
Anyone know when this will open as it is now finished, I know none of the signalling upgrade is finished what with the re-letting of the tender. 2018 is not that far away. Has it started yet, well when it does double the number of years LUL tell you it will take then you may have the opening date if you are lucky ? Perhaps it will turn out to be a bit of a white elephant and they will put the control elsewhere?
|
|
|
Post by dave1 on Oct 11, 2014 11:51:40 GMT
Hammersmith SCC - Is this for the Picc or the H&C ? LT/LU have never really got to grips with the concept of permanent centralisation. Even though locations last for decades they may still be seen as temporary because they are never permanent. With modern technology and remote control it should be possible to locate an SCC or Control Centre at any location within a matter of days especially as the railway has a superb communications network such that any system can be ported anywhere via either intranet or dedicated channels in the transmission systems. From a technological standpoint it all boils down to interfacing the various systems to a bidi muitiplex system which is connected to the remote location where appropriate software sends commands and receives remote data. It can all be done on PCs. Fortunes in time and expenditure might be realised if the right people put their heads together but IMHO the right people are no longer employed and all the wrong people are calling the shots! As far as I am aware the new SCC is for all of the sub surface lines and they have now decided that the Piccadilly will also go in there although that at the moment is to have a different control system. I agree with what you have said they could put the links in and recontrol as NR have been doing in recent years.
|
|
|
Post by railtechnician on Oct 11, 2014 16:25:17 GMT
Hammersmith SCC - Is this for the Picc or the H&C ? LT/LU have never really got to grips with the concept of permanent centralisation. Even though locations last for decades they may still be seen as temporary because they are never permanent. With modern technology and remote control it should be possible to locate an SCC or Control Centre at any location within a matter of days especially as the railway has a superb communications network such that any system can be ported anywhere via either intranet or dedicated channels in the transmission systems. From a technological standpoint it all boils down to interfacing the various systems to a bidi muitiplex system which is connected to the remote location where appropriate software sends commands and receives remote data. It can all be done on PCs. Fortunes in time and expenditure might be realised if the right people put their heads together but IMHO the right people are no longer employed and all the wrong people are calling the shots! As far as I am aware the new SCC is for all of the sub surface lines and they have now decided that the Piccadilly will also go in there although that at the moment is to have a different control system. I agree with what you have said they could put the links in and recontrol as NR have been doing in recent years. I have not forgotten that the Picc built Ash House and Bollo House respectively as the East and West End Operating Centres and were said to have been where the control rooms were going. As it was Bollo House was extended after it was built to create more accommodation and stores facilities and engineering also had Maxwell House in Ealing Common depot next to the Museum. Engineering management was based at Pelham Street before moving into the old control room building above Leicester Square station, Cranbourne Chambers. Of course Earls Court CR was going to move in the noughties but in the event the District went and the room was 'done up' to make way for control of Heathrow T5. A former colleague has suggested that Earls Court will still be the Picc CR into the 2020s, he expects to retire before it is closed. Over nearly three decades of service I spent a great deal of time on the Picc and like all the lines it was always a work in progress. The trouble is that there never seemed to be a specific goal in mind, no ultimate plan to work towards, no concept of natural progression of technology or any thought given as to how to manage the finances sensibly. It seemed to be custom and practice to obtain approval for a plan, have the capital allocated by the government of the day only to find it subsequently not available in the same amount. This led to planned inflation of future project budgets in an attempt to obviate or circumvent future funding cuts. Inevitably this led to cancelled works through lack of finance and then a budget surplus as what monies had been secured were no longer spent as the projects were cancelled. Thus towards the end of every financial year there was a mad rush to spend the surplus somehow in order not to have next years government subsidies cut to take account of funds held! This often meant emptying the stores of materials and holding them locally and offering record amounts of overtime, basically wasting money that would otherwise have been forfeit! LT/LU did not invent this system, it went on in all the publicly funded and operated organisations from the Civil Service and the NHS to all the public utilities, armed forces etc. Anyone with eyes and commonsense will know that it still goes on today to a greater or lesser extent one way or another, how else would the vast funding cuts by the current government be accommodated, a demonstration if one be required of just how much £taxpayers billions have been wasted for decades. If LUL had to rely solely upon revenue to stay solvent and run a decent transportation service it would need to be a leaner more efficient and better operated organisation.
|
|
drico
Station Inspector
Thank you driver, off clips.
Posts: 202
|
Post by drico on Oct 12, 2014 7:30:39 GMT
Earls Court Control Room still has the District Line signalling desks and staff that controll Ealing Broadway, Acton Town, etc up to Tower Hill and High Street Ken.
It is only the Line Controllers who have moved out of the control room,
|
|
|
Post by railtechnician on Oct 12, 2014 15:26:59 GMT
Earls Court Control Room still has the District Line signalling desks and staff that controll Ealing Broadway, Acton Town, etc up to Tower Hill and High Street Ken. It is only the Line Controllers who have moved out of the control room, I am well aware of that, I am sure I have mentioned before (perhaps in another place) that the estimate to move Earls Court C/R was £300 million when I was working there back in the early noughties. The room and everything in it was of course a Tube Lines asset while the rest of the station was a Metronet asset apart from the Picc tunnels and platforms. Thus it was a Tube Lines problem as was much of the kit in the Warwick Road relay room complex even though that was predominantly Metronet kit ! The PPP was a backward step in so many ways not least of which was carving up the railway into chunks that made little sense leading to a doubling and trebling of engineering management and support and creating literally thousands of unnecessary trading relationships between Operating and three engineering organisations. Further, dividing places like Earls Court C/R from the rest of the site introduced additional H&S complexity and complex working practices and arrangements for some tasks. Although I was a Picc lineman I found myself working on the District and Met where we did maintenance on behalf of SSL and originally the Jubilee had no maintenance staff so it was shared between Picc and Northern line engineering organisations. Similar arrangements existed across all lines with the various InfraCos and subsequently Tube Lines and SSL. Perhaps some common sense will prevail now that all maintenance organisations are in LUL hands once more but somehow I think not. I have heard that former Tube Lines are 'seen' differently to former Metronet. Personally I think the whole structure of the railway, all lines and all departments, wants reorganising from the top down into one coherent and efficient hierarchy as it was decades ago.
|
|
|
Post by hellocontrol on Oct 15, 2014 14:24:41 GMT
I would be surprised if they move any signallers in there in the forseable future.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Oct 19, 2014 14:40:14 GMT
It is far too soon to speculate. They seem to change their mind twice a week. I do know they have been investigating the possibility of using existing offices at South Ken for the Pic, but they change their minds so quickly its nigh impossible to keep track.
The contract is rumoured to be sorted on December 5th with Thales the only contenders for it. The original offer claimed it had to follow the same dates. But 6 months to open a control room is less than unlikely.
|
|
|
Post by dave1 on Nov 8, 2014 11:54:21 GMT
Frying pan with nothing in it.
|
|