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Post by hellocontrol on Oct 7, 2014 18:30:05 GMT
A couple from the drivers view on youtube. Woodford to Debden At 2.00 mins there is a short piece of platform before Buckhurst Hill, was the station relocated? Leytonstone to Woodford At 1.54 mins the starter at Snaresbrook is showing white, did the train catch up after leaving Leytonstone on green, there is also a 10 sign by the starter which seems permanent. At 2.25 mins there is a sign which I have not seen before black triangle in a white circle the only thing that comes to mind is leaves or loss of adhesion but there don't seem to be any others.
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Post by Nortube on Oct 7, 2014 21:14:04 GMT
With regards to the first question, if you mean going north on the left just before you get to Buckhurst Hill, that used to be a coal yard, according to my Alan Godfrey 1914 OS reprint. Looking on the NLS site, this link will hopefully take you to it - just zoom around [ Click here ]Edit The NLS map is the six inch from 1888-1893. Of course, just because a map doesn't show that it's not a platform at that map date doesn't mean that it might not have been a platform at another time. If you scroll around the map, you'll see that most stations have the goods / coal yards. Their sites are also very easy to spot from Google Earth because the land boundary usually retains the shape and they have become convenient car parks. An eventual use that would never have been dreamed of when the stations first opened! I've made notes of the details and will pass them on to Franklin if he wants to include them in the Carto Metro map.
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Post by hellocontrol on Oct 8, 2014 4:24:11 GMT
Thanks for that I did check the NLS site but could not get the maps to display. I know that the east end of the Central had lots of goods yards it was just that little bit seemed to show part of a platform making me think that the station had been relocated at some time.
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drico
Station Inspector
Thank you driver, off clips.
Posts: 202
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Post by drico on Oct 8, 2014 9:53:10 GMT
Buckhurst Hill station opened in 1856 it had two platforms staggered either side of the Queens Road level crossing.
In the book "Branch Line to Ongar" is a photo of the old station house with a disused platform, this may be the one in the video.
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drico
Station Inspector
Thank you driver, off clips.
Posts: 202
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Post by drico on Oct 8, 2014 10:00:07 GMT
Thanks for that I did check the NLS site but could not get the maps to display. I know that the east end of the Central had lots of goods yards it was just that little bit seemed to show part of a platform making me think that the station had been relocated at some time. The station was rebuilt by the GER from 1891 -1892 the new station was North of Queens Road and the Goods yard was to the south, adjoining the rear of the old down (eastbound line) platform.
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Post by Nortube on Oct 8, 2014 13:39:15 GMT
The second series OS maps just caught the area after the changes. When you look at the large scale (detailed) OS maps over the years, there is a lot of change to the railways and it appears that various stations were either moved, had the platform layout changed, or were just closed by the end of the 19th century. I assume that this was the result, in part, of places becoming more populated and the stations weren't always in the most convenient place or stations that were close together were decided unnecessary.
The problem with areas on the outskirts of London that are in the middle of nowhere, is that detailed OS first series type maps (1860s) are not that common unless you go to a local library. That is assuming that there was actually a first series map produced for that area. Alan Godfrey Maps (I have all he's produced for the GLC area and beyond) often only reproduce maps of these areas starting from the 1890s or 1910s when more of the changes start to occur. Likewise, the outer areas of London are usually missing from online sites such as NLS. This can be frustrating when trying to research something.
Hellocontrol The map link opens OK in the latest Firefox. It also opens OK in IE8, although there is less displayed on the screen. I've found in the past that the NLS site can be a bit finicky with some browsers, and also when I save links I don't always get the same page / view when I click on a saved bookmark.
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Post by Nortube on Oct 8, 2014 13:56:34 GMT
I've just had another did around the NLS site and have found the 1866 6" sheet for that area. The staggered platforms are shown on there. The actual sheet is here, and you can scroll around and zoom as required - click on Print View to see more on the screen. [ Click here ]The index grid for that sheet map series and other years is here (if it picks the link up correctly) If necessary, select: 1 Select a category - England and Wales Ordnace Survey 2 Select a map category - OS Six-Inch, 1842 - 1952 Scroll / zoom around the grid until you get to the location then click on the nearest grid square. A list of map sheets will show up on the right. Click on the relevant one to open it. It may open in a new window. [ Click here ]The disadvantage with using sheets is that they're only scrollable on that sheet and not seemless scrolling over the whole London area. This can be a pain when what you are looking at spans over several sheets. A clip of the station area - click to enlarge:
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Post by Seven Kings Kid on Oct 14, 2014 17:20:02 GMT
Leytonstone to Woodford[/a] At 1.54 mins the starter at Snaresbrook is showing white, did the train catch up after leaving Leytonstone on green, there is also a 10 sign by the starter which seems permanent. At 2.25 mins there is a sign which I have not seen before black triangle in a white circle the only thing that comes to mind is leaves or loss of adhesion but there don't seem to be any others. [/quote]
About your above points, if you look closely at the 10mph Permanent Speed restriction, above the ten is written "Eng". The 10mph applies to engineers trains traversing the bridge ahead. The black triangle sign signifies to engineering train drivers that they are clear of the bridge and can resume running at a normal speed. There are quite a few of these signs applying to Engineering trains on the Central. With regards the White light, the next colour light signal after the Snaresbrook starter is the starter at Sth Woodford - a very long section - whereas from Leytonstone there is a colour light signal between Leytonstone & Snaresbrook platform. So it's not so much that the train has 'caught up' with the train in front as such, rather the train is still the same distance ahead as it was but is still occupying part of the long signalling section ahead.
With regards to disused platforms - look at the eastbound platform closely at Snaresbrook and you'll notice there was a bay platform there too. Look at the platform canopy and the concrete lampposts lighting the open section and it becomes clearer as they are double sided. When you're actually on the platform it's really obvious as you can see the old platform edge!
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Post by GentlemanJim on Oct 14, 2014 22:06:47 GMT
If you have a look on maps.nls.uk/ you'll find it all. Click on the link, you'll see a map of Scotland, click on that and then have a play with the drop down menus..... very interesting.
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Post by Nortube on Oct 15, 2014 11:01:27 GMT
Here is the Snaresbook bit of the map around 1900. Unfortunately, platforms aren't always shown clearly on maps unless the maps are large scale, although the buildings (black in this case) are usually shown. In the past, there were probably many main line stations with bay platforms. Not all were used by passengers and some may have been quite short compared the through platforms. They were often a convenient way of loading / transferring goods at platform level. There used to be a short bay road at the south end of platform 3 at Finchley Central (now a flower bed) click to enlarge
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Post by railtechnician on Oct 15, 2014 14:05:26 GMT
Here is the Snaresbook bit of the map around 1900. Unfortunately, platforms aren't always shown clearly on maps unless the maps are large scale, although the buildings (black in this case) are usually shown. In the past, there were probably many main line stations with bay platforms. Not all were used by passengers and some may have been quite short compared the through platforms. They were often a convenient way of loading / transferring goods at platform level. There used to be a short bay road at the south end of platform 3 at Finchley Central (now a flower bed) click to enlarge Ah yes if it's the one I am thinking of I remember the flower bed! I ran a one pair telephone cable under it way back in 1979 to serve the temporary P Way portakabin there. One of the very first jobs I did after joining the Telephone Section from Signal New Works.
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Post by hellocontrol on Oct 15, 2014 14:16:13 GMT
Thanks for that I did check the NLS site but could not get the maps to display. I know that the east end of the Central had lots of goods yards it was just that little bit seemed to show part of a platform making me think that the station had been relocated at some time. The station was rebuilt by the GER from 1891 -1892 the new station was North of Queens Road and the Goods yard was to the south, adjoining the rear of the old down (eastbound line) platform. Thanks for this.
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Post by hellocontrol on Oct 15, 2014 14:16:59 GMT
The second series OS maps just caught the area after the changes. When you look at the large scale (detailed) OS maps over the years, there is a lot of change to the railways and it appears that various stations were either moved, had the platform layout changed, or were just closed by the end of the 19th century. I assume that this was the result, in part, of places becoming more populated and the stations weren't always in the most convenient place or stations that were close together were decided unnecessary. The problem with areas on the outskirts of London that are in the middle of nowhere, is that detailed OS first series type maps (1860s) are not that common unless you go to a local library. That is assuming that there was actually a first series map produced for that area. Alan Godfrey Maps (I have all he's produced for the GLC area and beyond) often only reproduce maps of these areas starting from the 1890s or 1910s when more of the changes start to occur. Likewise, the outer areas of London are usually missing from online sites such as NLS. This can be frustrating when trying to research something. Hellocontrol The map link opens OK in the latest Firefox. It also opens OK in IE8, although there is less displayed on the screen. I've found in the past that the NLS site can be a bit finicky with some browsers, and also when I save links I don't always get the same page / view when I click on a saved bookmark. The NLS site is now working fine.
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Post by hellocontrol on Oct 15, 2014 14:19:55 GMT
[/a] At 1.54 mins the starter at Snaresbrook is showing white, did the train catch up after leaving Leytonstone on green, there is also a 10 sign by the starter which seems permanent. At 2.25 mins there is a sign which I have not seen before black triangle in a white circle the only thing that comes to mind is leaves or loss of adhesion but there don't seem to be any others. [/quote] About your above points, if you look closely at the 10mph Permanent Speed restriction, above the ten is written "Eng". The 10mph applies to engineers trains traversing the bridge ahead. The black triangle sign signifies to engineering train drivers that they are clear of the bridge and can resume running at a normal speed. There are quite a few of these signs applying to Engineering trains on the Central. With regards the White light, the next colour light signal after the Snaresbrook starter is the starter at Sth Woodford - a very long section - whereas from Leytonstone there is a colour light signal between Leytonstone & Snaresbrook platform. So it's not so much that the train has 'caught up' with the train in front as such, rather the train is still the same distance ahead as it was but is still occupying part of the long signalling section ahead. With regards to disused platforms - look at the eastbound platform closely at Snaresbrook and you'll notice there was a bay platform there too. Look at the platform canopy and the concrete lampposts lighting the open section and it becomes clearer as they are double sided. When you're actually on the platform it's really obvious as you can see the old platform edge![/quote] I did not notice but I have not seen any of the other signs before are they something that has been introduced recently? There seems to some issues with this post.
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Post by hellocontrol on Oct 15, 2014 14:22:27 GMT
Here is the Snaresbook bit of the map around 1900. Unfortunately, platforms aren't always shown clearly on maps unless the maps are large scale, although the buildings (black in this case) are usually shown. In the past, there were probably many main line stations with bay platforms. Not all were used by passengers and some may have been quite short compared the through platforms. They were often a convenient way of loading / transferring goods at platform level. There used to be a short bay road at the south end of platform 3 at Finchley Central (now a flower bed) click to enlarge Those maps are very interesting.
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