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Post by dave1 on Aug 27, 2013 11:34:46 GMT
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 27, 2013 19:50:31 GMT
IIRC that's a P/Mc diagram for Aldwych, nearby there's another for Kings Cross. Most programme machines were on site i.e. Northfields at Northfields IMR, Acton at Acton East IMR, South Harrow at South Harrow IMR but Kings Cross P/Mc were in Warwick Road Relay Room i.e. the relay room in the pictures. I recall three P/MCs in that relay room and two diagrams so one P/Mc was for Aldwych and the other two were for Kings Cross AFAIR. Note the fans in one of the pictures, these were to cool the electronic cards as the room was so hot that without extra ventilation the cards would overheat and fail! That relay room is on the level below the concourse to Warwick Road and the exhibition centre, there is a level below that a few feet above track level containing more equipment which is in the open air to all intents and purposes although enclosed. As a control room T/O I used to do a lot of maintenance in both those rooms and the many other relay rooms and equipment rooms on the station and in the adjacent substation. |
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Post by hellocontrol on Aug 28, 2013 9:36:35 GMT
That's the upper relay room at Earls Court. |
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Post by hellocontrol on Aug 28, 2013 9:40:57 GMT
IIRC that's a P/Mc diagram for Aldwych, nearby there's another for Kings Cross. Most programme machines were on site i.e. Northfields at Northfields IMR, Acton at Acton East IMR, South Harrow at South Harrow IMR but Kings Cross P/Mc were in Warwick Road Relay Room i.e. the relay room in the pictures. I recall three P/MCs in that relay room and two diagrams so one P/Mc was for Aldwych and the other two were for Kings Cross AFAIR. Note the fans in one of the pictures, these were to cool the electronic cards as the room was so hot that without extra ventilation the cards would overheat and fail! That relay room is on the level below the concourse to Warwick Road and the exhibition centre, there is a level below that a few feet above track level containing more equipment which is in the open air to all intents and purposes although enclosed. As a control room T/O I used to do a lot of maintenance in both those rooms and the many other relay rooms and equipment rooms on the station and in the adjacent substation. There are four diagrams in that room Holborn PD Kings Cross L Down Street PB South Harrow WV all the diagrams contain signals/points/release's but Down Street and Kings Cross contain PM info as well. No PMs at Aldwych but the style is the same. The PMs are still in that room minus the rolls all electronic now. |
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 28, 2013 18:29:04 GMT
IIRC that's a P/Mc diagram for Aldwych, nearby there's another for Kings Cross. Most programme machines were on site i.e. Northfields at Northfields IMR, Acton at Acton East IMR, South Harrow at South Harrow IMR but Kings Cross P/Mc were in Warwick Road Relay Room i.e. the relay room in the pictures. I recall three P/MCs in that relay room and two diagrams so one P/Mc was for Aldwych and the other two were for Kings Cross AFAIR. Note the fans in one of the pictures, these were to cool the electronic cards as the room was so hot that without extra ventilation the cards would overheat and fail! That relay room is on the level below the concourse to Warwick Road and the exhibition centre, there is a level below that a few feet above track level containing more equipment which is in the open air to all intents and purposes although enclosed. As a control room T/O I used to do a lot of maintenance in both those rooms and the many other relay rooms and equipment rooms on the station and in the adjacent substation. There are four diagrams in that room Holborn PD Kings Cross L Down Street PB South Harrow WV all the diagrams contain signals/points/release's but Down Street and Kings Cross contain PM info as well. No PMs at Aldwych but the style is the same. The PMs are still in that room minus the rolls all electronic now. I used to change PM rolls at all the Picc/Dist sites from Acton East to Heathrow (called a PM but actually an HP computer requiring a disk timetable load via the front end PC), Ealing Broadway and South Harrow. Working in Warwick Road relay room as a night Control Room TO I was never concerned with the PM rolls there as I was not based at Earls Court although I worked there most nights of most weeks for more than a couple of years. To be honest I knew that the Kings Cross PMs were there but really couldn't recall a Holborn (what I meant when I suggested Aldwych) PM especially as I used to do the frame maintenance at Holborn after the point control lever was plated normal. I had forgotten all about the Down Street PM, a site I know well as I spent many hours there on maintenance, failures and IMR safety relay replacement. Strangely I have no recollection whatever of a South Harrow WV diagram in Warwick Road Relay Room but it is now some 9 years since I last saw the room. I'm pretty sure the last of the Earls Court complex rooms that I worked in was the Turnham Green card room next door when I recovered a lot of obsolete control room kit including the 1970s telephone rack which still had the DRICO relay sets on the shelves.
I've heard about the electronic PM but have yet to see a picture of one!
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Post by Nortube on Aug 28, 2013 19:55:44 GMT
Is the electronic PM the one that runs off a USB stick?
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 29, 2013 9:23:51 GMT
Is the electronic PM the one that runs off a USB stick? Apparently so but that gives no clue as to what an electronic PM looks like! I expect it's actually based around some kind of PLC interfaced to the old wiring and simply replicating the functions of the original EP P/Mc. It could be something as simple as a Raspberry Pi or Arduino PC with a relay output board although it would be an industrial version and probably be ten times as expensive! In fact I have no doubt at all that much of the non-safety signalling could be replaced by thousands of industrial quality Raspberry PI type devices which would reduce the costs of procurement and maintenance considerably. These days computers really are two-a-penny so almost every component could be created from or based around a universal PC no bigger than a cigarette packet, each programmed according to device functional requirements and having suitable 'bolt-on' interfacing characteristics. |
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Post by Nortube on Aug 29, 2013 10:02:54 GMT
I think somebody posted a photo of one somewhere (on this forum?), if not I have a picture I can post. I think the interface is as you say. The programme machine stand etc. is still in place, but the carrier with the roll in place has been replaced by a box containing the relevant circuitry and a USB stick plugged into it. I assume the box is a direct replacement and has similar connections that the carrier has. Instead of the carrier plugging into the base, the box does.
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Post by hellocontrol on Aug 29, 2013 11:19:42 GMT
There are four diagrams in that room Holborn PD Kings Cross L Down Street PB South Harrow WV all the diagrams contain signals/points/release's but Down Street and Kings Cross contain PM info as well. No PMs at Aldwych but the style is the same. The PMs are still in that room minus the rolls all electronic now. I used to change PM rolls at all the Picc/Dist sites from Acton East to Heathrow (called a PM but actually an HP computer requiring a disk timetable load via the front end PC), Ealing Broadway and South Harrow. Working in Warwick Road relay room as a night Control Room TO I was never concerned with the PM rolls there as I was not based at Earls Court although I worked there most nights of most weeks for more than a couple of years. To be honest I knew that the Kings Cross PMs were there but really couldn't recall a Holborn (what I meant when I suggested Aldwych) PM especially as I used to do the frame maintenance at Holborn after the point control lever was plated normal. I had forgotten all about the Down Street PM, a site I know well as I spent many hours there on maintenance, failures and IMR safety relay replacement. Strangely I have no recollection whatever of a South Harrow WV diagram in Warwick Road Relay Room but it is now some 9 years since I last saw the room. I'm pretty sure the last of the Earls Court complex rooms that I worked in was the Turnham Green card room next door when I recovered a lot of obsolete control room kit including the 1970s telephone rack which still had the DRICO relay sets on the shelves.
I've heard about the electronic PM but have yet to see a picture of one!
Changing of PM rolls I remember that only too well and all the problems that go with it depending on the T/O concerned. I think the diagrams are to do with coincidence that's what someone told me why they put the PMs in that relay room I don't know but the diagram assisted when there were problems. |
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Post by hellocontrol on Aug 29, 2013 11:20:40 GMT
I think somebody posted a photo of one somewhere (on this forum?), if not I have a picture I can post. I think the interface is as you say. The programme machine stand etc. is still in place, but the carrier with the roll in place has been replaced by a box containing the relevant circuitry and a USB stick plugged into it. I assume the box is a direct replacement and has similar connections that the carrier has. Instead of the carrier plugging into the base, the box does. There is a photo somewhere but can not find it myself hopefully someone will have better luck. |
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Post by Nortube on Aug 29, 2013 11:24:01 GMT
PMs  Programme machine with roll  Electronic PM  Electronic PM |
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Post by Nortube on Aug 29, 2013 12:10:08 GMT
Close up of top of Programme Machine and roll  |
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Post by dave1 on Aug 29, 2013 12:24:00 GMT
Thanks everyone for all the interesting replies.
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 29, 2013 15:57:07 GMT
I think somebody posted a photo of one somewhere (on this forum?), if not I have a picture I can post. I think the interface is as you say. The programme machine stand etc. is still in place, but the carrier with the roll in place has been replaced by a box containing the relevant circuitry and a USB stick plugged into it. I assume the box is a direct replacement and has similar connections that the carrier has. Instead of the carrier plugging into the base, the box does. Seeing the pictures of the electronic P/Mc (thank you) I can see that the carrier has gone, the actual programme machine has gone and so has the connecting foot containing the rows of connections which would be swung up beneath the machine to make the connection and be secured with a large knurled nut. Swapping USB sticks has to be far easier than the trials and tribulations of changing rolls, hand rewinding could be a nightmare especially when all sites had gone wrong! I wouldn't be surprised to discover that the USB sticks could be loaded with new data direct from the intranet possibly negating the need for TO attendance at all except in the case of failure. |
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