Guided busway

[Nortube]

OK, I know this isn't London, but what is a guided busway?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22043728

Is it just a fancy name for what appears just to be a separate road built for buses or is there actually technology and special buses involved?

[railtechnician]

Apr 6, 2013 10:25:17 GMT Nortube said:

OK, I know this isn't London, but what is a guided busway?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22043728

Is it just a fancy name for what appears just to be a separate road built for buses or is there actually technology and special buses involved?

More than just a fancy name I thought, 'guided' being the operative word as I thought that was done with guide wheels and presumably keeping the bus on the road whether it was actually being steered by a driver or not.

[Nortube]

Am I missing something obvious? What is the point of it. Surely it would be cheaper just to run an ordinary bus on an ordinary road (or even build a special bus lane if necessary), or is the vehicle something that isn't really a bus as we know it?

[thestig]

The Cambridge busway is built largely on the old St Ives - Cambridge railway. Basically it is designed to help reduce congestion on the A14 and offers an improved journey time if the A14 is rammed.

The busway is owned by Cambridgeshire County Council and 2 bus companies have the right to run buses over the busway. They're contractually required only to run a service between 0700-1900 Mon - Sat and as is typical outside London sees very little evening and Sunday use as a result.

The busway has proved successful and hopefully the private companies could be encouraged to expand evening & Sunday services.

Apart from the buses being new, with wifi, leather seats and plug sockets the only difference between guideway buses and normal buses are little wheels on the side of the bus. The busway itself is narrow with kerbs either side not much wider than the bus. Therefore once the bus is correctly in the busway the driver no longer steers but simply accelerates/ brakes with the only signals being traffic lights and the crossings with the roads. Very much like a tram system.

The old 2 track tracked now houses 2 lanes of busway and a cycle path along its length with bus stops being very similar affairs to tram stops.

[Nortube]

Interesting. I still can't see what advantage this has. Presumably it costs extra for the guide wheels to be fitted and maintained and, presumably the kerbs added to the cost where they wouldn't normally be needed, other than at stops. The driver still has to manually steer the bus when there are no guide kerbs for whatever reason, and because he is still accellerating / braking, they still have to keep their eye on the road ahead when the bus is moving. I could understand it if the bus was semi ATP with accelleration / braking being computer controlled when on the bus way, but can't see the point in it otherwise.

[railtechnician]

Apr 6, 2013 19:48:22 GMT Nortube said:

Interesting. I still can't see what advantage this has. Presumably it costs extra for the guide wheels to be fitted and maintained and, presumably the kerbs added to the cost where they wouldn't normally be needed, other than at stops. The driver still has to manually steer the bus when there are no guide kerbs for whatever reason, and because he is still accellerating / braking, they still have to keep their eye on the road ahead when the bus is moving. I could understand it if the bus was semi ATP with accelleration / braking being computer controlled when on the bus way, but can't see the point in it otherwise.

I'm really not sure why you're struggling with the concept, one might ask "why have buses anywhere at all or heavy rail within conurbations", a guided busway is simply an alternative means of moving passengers from A to B and I expect it is a cheaper option than building a tramway when a route pretty much already exists.  Guided busways should also be to some extent mitigation for the occasional driver lapse which might otherwise put the occasional dent in the bodywork.

[Nortube]

I am struggling

I just can't see what the benefits are of (presumably) something that is a lot more expensive than a normal bus route.
I could understand if a tramway or light rail system was built, or even if the busway was automatic, but to me it just seems that's it's a normal bus with edge wheels to guide it. It appears to be a bit like the rubber-tyred stock on the Paris Metro where the guide wheels steer the train rather than the rails in normal circumstances. The difference being that on the metro, the driver doesn't have to steer the train when it comes to a crossing etc.

I agree that a guided system could prevent a few scrapes or even accidents along the guided sections that might occur if the driver wasn't driving the bus correctly on a normal road, but whilst I can see that as a side benefit of the system, I can't see it as being the main reason for not having drivers actually steer a bus some of the time when they've got to steer it at other times on the journey. Unless bus drivers are that bad in Cambridge, which I'm sure they're not!

[railtechnician]

Apr 7, 2013 10:25:15 GMT Nortube said:

I am struggling

I just can't see what the benefits are of (presumably) something that is a lot more expensive than a normal bus route.
I could understand if a tramway or light rail system was built, or even if the busway was automatic, but to me it just seems that's it's a normal bus with edge wheels to guide it. It appears to be a bit like the rubber-tyred stock on the Paris Metro where the guide wheels steer the train rather than the rails in normal circumstances. The difference being that on the metro, the driver doesn't have to steer the train when it comes to a crossing etc.

I agree that a guided system could prevent a few scrapes or even accidents along the guided sections that might occur if the driver wasn't driving the bus correctly on a normal road, but whilst I can see that as a side benefit of the system, I can't see it as being the main reason for not having drivers actually steer a bus some of the time when they've got to steer it at other times on the journey. Unless bus drivers are that bad in Cambridge, which I'm sure they're not!

I think you are failing to see the wood for the trees!

If you were that interested you might've googled the subject and found this

www.britpave.org.uk/GBWhyBuild.ink

Which would hopefully at least have made you think a little more deeply than you have! 

[Nortube]

It would have been simpler to look it up, I know. From what it says on the site, there seem to be some advantages, so I suppose it's worth it for those places that use them. They would be OK if they had frequent use, but if there was a bus using it only every 20-30 minutes, then I'd say it wouldn't justify the cost.

[railtechnician]

Apr 7, 2013 22:03:40 GMT Nortube said:

It would have been simpler to look it up, I know. From what it says on the site, there seem to be some advantages, so I suppose it's worth it for those places that use them. They would be OK if they had frequent use, but if there was a bus using it only every 20-30 minutes, then I'd say it wouldn't justify the cost.

I have no experience of Guided Busways and from the sound of it neither do you, I thus have an open mind on the subject and I can't help wondering why you haven't. Every comment that you have made is anti, with no knowledge of the subject whatsoever you are looking for any peg at all to hang an 'against' argument on, now why is that? It rather sounds as though you have some vested interest which forces you to have such a narrow minded opinion.

[Nortube]

I don't think I was being negative about busways, and my last post wasn't negative, just saying that it would have to have frequent use to justify the cost. I've just had a look at the Cambridge busway timetable and they seem to have buses about every 8 minutes during the day. In which case, that's a frequent service and is obviously worth whatever it cost.

If there are any Cambridge users reading this thread, perhaps they would care to comment on what the busway is like.