What is your layout

[hellocontrol]

Just wondering what layouts people would do if they could depending on the different scales. All the layouts well most seem to be of a fictitious location although maybe based on a real location, the one I liked was Dick Yeo’s Epton.


What period of time and the different workings possible.
I know that some people would try to put as much realism as possible signals that are mechanically locked as well as many other things.

[railtechnician]

1970s Acton Town for open track and 1970s Wood Green for a tunnel layout. Scale is of course the killer because to do a site like Acton Town to scale even a through lounge would be inadequate at 00 scale. From a signalling and traction perspective to do that properly requires four rail track with correctly used +ve, -ve, continuous and section rails so nothing less than 0 gauge is suitable realistically. From a scenic viewpoint it would have to be N or possibly Z scale for Acton Town which would really have to include Ealing Common depot and Acton Works. For Wood Green four rail 00 scale would require a decent size spare room.
A four car EFE set sits on the mantlepiece in my lounge, a scale length platform for a 6/7 car set plus the siding track would be wider than the room without even considering the station approaches, home signal tracks etc.
It is more than 30 years since I sold my N gauge layout, had N gauge LT stock been around then I may not have sold it. On that layout I designed my own track circuits loosely based upon the US railroaders twin T circuits developed by Linn Westcott as it was a two rail system. My main interest was signalling and I used signals bought from many sources including electrically operated semaphores and various types of colour light signals all of which used grain of wheat bulbs which were over scale, there are better solutions these days using under baseboard LEDs and glass fibres to make true scale signal heads. I used ITT type miniature relays but would probably tend towards solid state circuitry and PCB mount reeds these days. I have never been enamored by DCC systems which simply do not replicate LT signalling and thus make operations unrealistic, if I were building a layout today it would have to be based around traditional LT signalling principles.
As for mechanical interlocking of points and signals nothing is impossible but to do that properly really requires something larger than 00 gauge for proper rod and wire control of points and semaphores and scale signal boxes to hide/house the levers to control them. That is one element of modelling that I never did indulge in, I recall dabbling in simple electronic interlocking and route pre-selection although I sold the layout long before I got around to installing anything more than a small portion of the intended signalling and control. The layout was intended to be fully track circuited with an individual regulator controlled traction feed to every track as well as the track circuit such that the signalling determined the speed in any section up to the preset limit determined by a preset 'pot' in each regulator circuit. The layout was intended to allow both continuous automated running and simultaneous manual operation of several trains. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) I was playing trains signalling wise 1:1 scale back then and it was just a little bit more interesting than the layout that I was creating!

I have never really got back into railway modelling although I have a few EFE four car sets, a Tamper, a Hornby L90 and a few scale Trackside LT vehicles to complement my massive LT model bus collection. The mantlepiece is all the room I have to spare for literally a couple of metres of 00 track and some rolling stock, all the other rooms in my cottage are filled with PBXs, telephones, computers and various peripherals.

[GentlemanJim]

My dream:

A model larger than OO based on the East End of the Central Line circa 1960/62 that way it would be possible to vary the stock from Standard to 62TS with a few kettles thrown in for good measure. When departing Leyton W/B trains would dive down in to a tunnel and would automatically reverse via 2 or 3 underground sidings and reappear as a 'new' train, the same at the Chigwell tunnel. Control would be by computer with the option to manually operate the Signal Cabins. All this would require an extremely large piece of land as it would be outside and very deep pockets.

[railtechnician]

Oct 5, 2014 14:15:16 GMT GentlemanJim said:

My dream:

A model larger than OO based on the East End of the Central Line circa 1960/62 that way it would be possible to vary the stock from Standard to 62TS with a few kettles thrown in for good measure. When departing Leyton W/B trains would dive down in to a tunnel and would automatically reverse via 2 or 3 underground sidings and reappear as a 'new' train, the same at the Chigwell tunnel. Control would be by computer with the option to manually operate the Signal Cabins. All this would require an extremely large piece of land as it would be outside and very deep pockets.

Yep that would be neat.

Years ago I was involved in the Gainsborough Road bridge cable diversions for the M11, I always thought that the cable runs spanning all the tracks there would be a great addition in model form to any layout. It was perhaps the most substantial chunk of cable run ironwork that I ran cables over, certainly the largest that I recall on open track. Of course that was erected about 30 years later than your chosen period.

Of course my choice of Acton Town would allow me to operate virtually any stock from any period within reason. 21, 22 and 23 roads were busy with all sorts being shunted in and out of Acton Works. With more room there'd be scope to include Chiswick Works, a fleet of RTWs, miscellaneous distribution services fleet vehicles, some very nice buildings including the always interesting scientific section roof area and even a working skid pan! Actually to do that justice I'd probably need to model all of Bollo Lane and include Chiswick Park and Ealing Common stations too ! I guess half a football pitch is the smallest I might squeeze a realistic 0 gauge layout into. Like the old White City RTC layout it would have to have fully working telephones too.

Alas I couldn't afford it unless I won the lottery and I don't do the lottery!

[GentlemanJim]

Gauge would have to be similar in size to the one that was at the RTC.

This youtube clip is excellent, the work involved must have taken many hours.

[railtechnician]

Oct 6, 2014 15:05:31 GMT GentlemanJim said:

Gauge would have to be similar in size to the one that was at the RTC.

This youtube clip is excellent, the work involved must have taken many hours.

My recollection of the RTC model railway in 1979 when I worked there for a few days installing fire alarms was that it was an O gauge layout that took up a whole classroom in an end to end U shaped layout. I recall being told that the rolling stock was made by craft apprentices in Acton Works and I know that it was signalled to the prevailing LT standards, Signal New Works used to treat it just the same as te 1:1 scale when doing signal mods and recommissioning. My own Telephone Section colleagues got the job of upgrading the telephones on the layout. I could be wrong but ISTR that two car trains based on C69 stock were used. It was a better layout than the 'new' one I have seen photos of in Ashfield House. Unfortunately I was only able to get a very quick look, the instructor was kind enough to let me in for a couple of minutes while his class was at lunch. I have often wondered what became of that layout.

I think I've seen the youtube clip before, it reminds me that I once owned some O gauge Hornby 3 rail tinplate track and rolling stock handed down to me by a friend of the family when I was 8 or 9 years old, an oval of track with a siding, a few wagons and a working snow plough and a 4-4-0 (IIRC) locomotive and tender in LMS red livery. It would probably be worth a mint these days but I passed it on to a primary school friend a year or so later when my father bought me an 00 gauge Triang Goods set with BR liveried 0-6-0 tank and four wagons with an oval of track which ISTR cost 99/6 including P/T circa 1963.

[Jim]

I'm pretty sure the trains on the RTC layout were 2 car A60's

[drico]

Yes the trains at WCTC were A60's, can any one recall the names of the signal cabins ?

[railtechnician]

Oct 6, 2014 17:35:25 GMT Jim said:

I'm pretty sure the trains on the RTC layout were 2 car A60's

I'm sure you're correct, as I said I was only in the room long enough for a very brief glimpse and recall two car unpainted stock that looked like C69 stock.

I'm wondering how many model railways have existed for training purposes. I believe there may have been one at the former Lambeth North railway training centre.

When I worked in the Earls Court Signal School in 1985 I discovered an 00 gauge layout on a baseboard and working model lever frame in the attic area at the end of the practical training building where I used to conduct trade tests for cable jointers but there was no rolling stock.

I expect there may have been one in the former South Kensington Signal School for training purposes although generally Signal Training schools prefer 1:1 scale as at South Kensington, Earls Court, the old and new Metronet schools in Acton Works and the Tube Lines school in Stratford Market Depot. I think model railways are more for operations staff training.

[hellocontrol]

Oct 6, 2014 18:09:37 GMT drico said:

Yes the trains at WCTC were A60's, can any one recall the names of the signal cabins ?

The frame at the window (main road) was Southdown I understand it was built by apprentice's. The stock was A stock there was a photo on the cover of the LT magazine Oct 1967. They did run in two's and they should uncoupling, something that has long gone. The other frame I think came from Mornington Crescent and right at the end was a terminus that originally had the east dest from Cromwell Road.

[hellocontrol]

Oct 6, 2014 20:44:26 GMT railtechnician said:

Oct 6, 2014 17:35:25 GMT Jim said:

I'm pretty sure the trains on the RTC layout were 2 car A60's

I'm sure you're correct, as I said I was only in the room long enough for a very brief glimpse and recall two car unpainted stock that looked like C69 stock.

I'm wondering how many model railways have existed for training purposes. I believe there may have been one at the former Lambeth North railway training centre.

When I worked in the Earls Court Signal School in 1985 I discovered an 00 gauge layout on a baseboard and working model lever frame in the attic area at the end of the practical training building where I used to conduct trade tests for cable jointers but there was no rolling stock.

I expect there may have been one in the former South Kensington Signal School for training purposes although generally Signal Training schools prefer 1:1 scale as at South Kensington, Earls Court, the old and new Metronet schools in Acton Works and the Tube Lines school in Stratford Market Depot. I think model railways are more for operations staff training.

RT I am sure you are right that having a working layout was an operating thing.

[hellocontrol]

Oct 5, 2014 14:15:16 GMT GentlemanJim said:

My dream:

A model larger than OO based on the East End of the Central Line circa 1960/62 that way it would be possible to vary the stock from Standard to 62TS with a few kettles thrown in for good measure. When departing Leyton W/B trains would dive down in to a tunnel and would automatically reverse via 2 or 3 underground sidings and reappear as a 'new' train, the same at the Chigwell tunnel. Control would be by computer with the option to manually operate the Signal Cabins. All this would require an extremely large piece of land as it would be outside and very deep pockets.

GJ that would be very good what with the goods yards and like you say the variety you would have.

[hellocontrol]

Oct 5, 2014 11:48:39 GMT railtechnician said:

1970s Acton Town for open track and 1970s Wood Green for a tunnel layout. Scale is of course the killer because to do a site like Acton Town to scale even a through lounge would be inadequate at 00 scale. From a signalling and traction perspective to do that properly requires four rail track with correctly used +ve, -ve, continuous and section rails so nothing less than 0 gauge is suitable realistically. From a scenic viewpoint it would have to be N or possibly Z scale for Acton Town which would really have to include Ealing Common depot and Acton Works. For Wood Green four rail 00 scale would require a decent size spare room.
A four car EFE set sits on the mantlepiece in my lounge, a scale length platform for a 6/7 car set plus the siding track would be wider than the room without even considering the station approaches, home signal tracks etc.
It is more than 30 years since I sold my N gauge layout, had N gauge LT stock been around then I may not have sold it. On that layout I designed my own track circuits loosely based upon the US railroaders twin T circuits developed by Linn Westcott as it was a two rail system. My main interest was signalling and I used signals bought from many sources including electrically operated semaphores and various types of colour light signals all of which used grain of wheat bulbs which were over scale, there are better solutions these days using under baseboard LEDs and glass fibres to make true scale signal heads. I used ITT type miniature relays but would probably tend towards solid state circuitry and PCB mount reeds these days. I have never been enamored by DCC systems which simply do not replicate LT signalling and thus make operations unrealistic, if I were building a layout today it would have to be based around traditional LT signalling principles.
As for mechanical interlocking of points and signals nothing is impossible but to do that properly really requires something larger than 00 gauge for proper rod and wire control of points and semaphores and scale signal boxes to hide/house the levers to control them. That is one element of modelling that I never did indulge in, I recall dabbling in simple electronic interlocking and route pre-selection although I sold the layout long before I got around to installing anything more than a small portion of the intended signalling and control. The layout was intended to be fully track circuited with an individual regulator controlled traction feed to every track as well as the track circuit such that the signalling determined the speed in any section up to the preset limit determined by a preset 'pot' in each regulator circuit. The layout was intended to allow both continuous automated running and simultaneous manual operation of several trains. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) I was playing trains signalling wise 1:1 scale back then and it was just a little bit more interesting than the layout that I was creating!

I have never really got back into railway modelling although I have a few EFE four car sets, a Tamper, a Hornby L90 and a few scale Trackside LT vehicles to complement my massive LT model bus collection. The mantlepiece is all the room I have to spare for literally a couple of metres of 00 track and some rolling stock, all the other rooms in my cottage are filled with PBXs, telephones, computers and various peripherals.

RT Acton Town was one I would like but like you say unless you did O gauge then you lose it because of the space required. You could have smaller sections but then you drift from the layout.

[hellocontrol]

My own layout would be West Ken what with the goods yard and Lillie Bridge, I remember visiting relatives in the late 50s and seeing the trains coming out. If you extended to Barons Court you could include the Piccs.

I like both RT & GJ layout ideas perhaps one day in another time and place. 

[GentlemanJim]

Oct 7, 2014 6:55:04 GMT hellocontrol said:

My own layout would be West Ken what with the goods yard and Lillie Bridge, I remember visiting relatives in the late 50s and seeing the trains coming out. If you extended to Barons Court you could include the Piccs.

I like both RT & GJ layout ideas perhaps one day in another time and place. 

As my dream layout would be all weather it would of course have to be built to sustain the ravages of our wonderful climate. Everything would have to be authentic as far as practical, points (electric) would hiss air and clunk over, heaters, compressors running, failures, you name it I'd include it. Security would be top notch, ground sensors, infrared, automatic lighting it would be like Fort Knox.

My dream is just that so I'm off to play my weekly lotto games.