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Post by hellocontrol on Feb 24, 2014 13:12:21 GMT
One of the units had a different type brake handle can anyone shed any light?
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Post by mrhappy on Feb 24, 2014 14:06:04 GMT
1960 saw several different stocks appear, so it would help to know which line your talking about? For instance, the craven stock operated from Hanault to Woodford and nearly became the standard stock for the central line. In the end, the 59 stock earmarked for another line was used until the 62 stock was delivered. Included in the 59 stock was a driving unit delivered in 1960 with a brake handle four inches lower than the deadman. Where all others had the brake handle the same height as the deadman. This unit was kept when the 62 stock was delivered and used in the centre of 8 car trains. The craven stock was known to be incredibly fast and was used as automatic trains and testing automatic running in passenger service.
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Post by hellocontrol on Feb 24, 2014 14:13:40 GMT
1960 saw several different stocks appear, so it would help to know which line your talking about? For instance, the craven stock operated from Hanault to Woodford and nearly became the standard stock for the central line. In the end, the 59 stock earmarked for another line was used until the 62 stock was delivered. Included in the 59 stock was a driving unit delivered in 1960 with a brake handle four inches lower than the deadman. Where all others had the brake handle the same height as the deadman. This unit was kept when the 62 stock was delivered and used in the centre of 8 car trains. The craven stock was known to be incredibly fast and was used as automatic trains and testing automatic running in passenger service. I did not see the train in question myself I was told by someone that one unit had been done. As we all know the 1960 tube stock only worked the Central line (passenger) mostly the Hainault shuttle although I remember reading somewhere that they did actually run on the main. I suspect the unit may have been one of the test units that used to run on various lines and I don't mean the TRV.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2014 14:18:51 GMT
I think the TRV uses the same braking system as some/all of the battery locos (Davies & Metcalfe?) - the brake handle in each pilot car certainly look similar to those of battery locos.
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Post by hellocontrol on Feb 24, 2014 14:36:37 GMT
I think the TRV uses the same braking system as some/all of the battery locos (Davies & Metcalfe?) - the brake handle in each pilot car certainly look similar to those of battery locos. I think that all engineers trains have the same don't know about the newer ones though, perhaps someone with some knowledge will come along and enlighten us.
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Post by mrhappy on Feb 24, 2014 16:11:36 GMT
The 1960 Craven stock was a four car unit that worked the main tube line between Hanault and woodford shuttle service. It was never used as a train set on the rest of the central line. Although it was better than the 59 and 62 stock. It cost more. I was once held at woodford junction on the westbound, waiting for this shuttle to cross over in front of me. It had by then been used as an automatic train for a number of years. On this day, the doors had been converted to automatic operation as well. So it was full of scientists and directors. Half way over the junction, it just stopped and refused to move. So everyone got off to look around it. Including the driver. Once everyone was on the track. It started up and left them! It then proceeded to run fully automatic to Hanault, picking up passengers along the way! I had to pick up a lot of red faced people when reaching the junction. Didnt help that I couldnt stop laughing at them!
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Post by hellocontrol on Feb 24, 2014 16:57:32 GMT
The 1960 Craven stock was a four car unit that worked the main tube line between Hanault and woodford shuttle service. It was never used as a train set on the rest of the central line. Although it was better than the 59 and 62 stock. It cost more. I was once held at woodford junction on the westbound, waiting for this shuttle to cross over in front of me. It had by then been used as an automatic train for a number of years. On this day, the doors had been converted to automatic operation as well. So it was full of scientists and directors. Half way over the junction, it just stopped and refused to move. So everyone got off to look around it. Including the driver. Once everyone was on the track. It started up and left them! It then proceeded to run fully automatic to Hanault, picking up passengers along the way! I had to pick up a lot of red faced people when reaching the junction. Didnt help that I couldnt stop laughing at them! I have to disagree with you in Underground news there was a photo some years back but I don't have Underground news anymore, don't know how many times they ran on the Main if you search LT museum photo page you will see when entering Debden in 1961. The experiment you talk about was for the Fully Automatic Controlled Train or FACT for short. When the trains first ran in auto on the Hainault shuttle I rode on the first day and many after that there was a unit which had part of the car partitioned off.
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Post by mrhappy on Feb 24, 2014 18:46:32 GMT
The 60 Craven stock and a 62 stock were built as tests before LUL fully decided which stock to buy. There was one other, afraid I do not know the name of that though. They ran Epping to Leytonstone in passenger service for a couple of weeks. But not a full timetable service.
When the trains first ran, they were automatically driven. With the driver just opening and closing the doors. The driver also took over at first driving into Woodford sidings and into Hanault platform 2.
The incident I referred to was when they experimented with the doors opening and closing automatically and hopes the unit could be sent into the depot automatically. It had been running for a short while with the automatic door operation before the boffins and directors came along to see it working.
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Post by GentlemanJim on Feb 25, 2014 11:00:34 GMT
12 Cravens built 60TS were ordered by LT numbered 3900-3911 which if successful were to replace the ageing Standard Stock. Coupled in to 4 car sets using refurbished Standard Stock trailers forming 8 car trains these operated in service over the Central Line from end to end. Due to re;iabilty problems arising with the Standard Stock the decision was taken to not proceed with any further orders of Cravens 60TS but to use the 59TS being delivered to the Picadilly Line, as we know the slightly different version for the Central Line became the 62TS. I have asked a friend about the FACT train, he will get back to me in due course. The incident described elsewhere doesn't seem to have been reported in any great detail that I can find (who could blame them)but we will be having a dig to see what can be found and why the FACT project came to an end. The ATO trains were manually driven into 21rd. at Woodford and into P3 where the Motorman would then select ATO, I can't remember where the Motorman would revert to manual driving entering Hainault but LL53 comes to mind, this would have been 1972-74 although I do recall ATO operation into P2 at Hainault. Not a bad thread considering it started out as a question about brake handles. credit © Brian Hardy Attachments:FACT 1.htm (264.07 KB)
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Post by hellocontrol on Feb 25, 2014 13:03:45 GMT
12 Cravens built 60TS were ordered by LT numbered 3900-3911 which if successful were to replace the ageing Standard Stock. Coupled in to 4 car sets using refurbished Standard Stock trailers forming 8 car trains these operated in service over the Central Line from end to end. Due to re;iabilty problems arising with the Standard Stock the decision was taken to not proceed with any further orders of Cravens 60TS but to use the 59TS being delivered to the Picadilly Line, as we know the slightly different version for the Central Line became the 62TS. I have asked a friend about the FACT train, he will get back to me in due course. The incident described elsewhere doesn't seem to have been reported in any great detail that I can find (who could blame them)but we will be having a dig to see what can be found and why the FACT project came to an end. The ATO trains were manually driven into 21rd. at Woodford and into P3 where the Motorman would then select ATO, I can't remember where the Motorman would revert to manual driving entering Hainault but LL53 comes to mind, this would have been 1972-74 although I do recall ATO operation into P2 at Hainault. Not a bad thread considering it started out as a question about brake handles. credit © Brian Hardy I can't see that attachment.
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Post by hellocontrol on Feb 25, 2014 13:05:26 GMT
The 60 Craven stock and a 62 stock were built as tests before LUL fully decided which stock to buy. There was one other, afraid I do not know the name of that though. They ran Epping to Leytonstone in passenger service for a couple of weeks. But not a full timetable service. When the trains first ran, they were automatically driven. With the driver just opening and closing the doors. The driver also took over at first driving into Woodford sidings and into Hanault platform 2. The incident I referred to was when they experimented with the doors opening and closing automatically and hopes the unit could be sent into the depot automatically. It had been running for a short while with the automatic door operation before the boffins and directors came along to see it working. If you check in Brian Hardy's rolling stock books it states that 1960 tube stock entered service in November 1960 in eight car formation on the main.
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Post by GentlemanJim on Feb 25, 2014 13:08:05 GMT
Hmmmmmm.... I've got 2 pictures of the FACT train but they're not saving to my pictures but saving the whole email page, one is above but not sure if it will open or not. Google Chrome.... grrrrrrrrrrr. credit © Brian Hardy Attachments:
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Post by hellocontrol on Feb 25, 2014 13:30:14 GMT
Hmmmmmm.... I've got 2 pictures of the FACT train but they're not saving to my pictures but saving the whole email page, one is above but not sure if it will open or not. Google Chrome.... grrrrrrrrrrr. credit © Brian Hardy GJ you have the same problem with Google Chrome join the club, anyway the photo now works thanks the small lamp at the side of the destination display I seem to remember was blue not sure if it flashed when the train was in FACT mode.
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Post by GentlemanJim on Feb 25, 2014 13:55:07 GMT
Hmmmmmm.... I've got 2 pictures of the FACT train but they're not saving to my pictures but saving the whole email page, one is above but not sure if it will open or not. Google Chrome.... grrrrrrrrrrr. credit © Brian Hardy GJ you have the same problem with Google Chrome join the club, anyway the photo now works thanks the small lamp at the side of the destination display I seem to remember was blue not sure if it flashed when the train was in FACT mode. I ended up going back to IE to save the pictures.... anyway, indeed the lamp was Blue and it did flash when in FACT mode. I've been sent an interesting link irse.org.au/images/stories/IRSE_Proceedings/Proceedings/IRSE%20Proceedings%201981.pdf page 110 is where to start.
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Post by mrhappy on Feb 25, 2014 14:15:08 GMT
The ATO train was routed into platform 2 at Hanault in the 70's due to building work being done to platform 3. They were building a new office for the what was then, Duty train manager on platform 3. About the same time, the driver I was with built a nice brick shed in his back garden. As I suspect many did. Might be the reason why the building work took so long? Last train to West Ruislip always seemed to have the centre cabs full of bricks and cement. No idea why?
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