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Post by railtechnician on Feb 8, 2017 13:36:14 GMT
I seem to recall the Central line being fitted with remotely controlled traction section switches during the circa 1990 resignalling and I presume that they would have been fitted to the JLE too as a new installation standard. I am wondering if the other lines have been or are being similarly fitted during upgrade works since then. I further presume these would be operated by the power control room at the behest of the service controller or possession master as appropriate and obviate the need for a cable lineman to manually pull and close section switches but I really don't know what procedural changes resulted as I never saw them operated, my stint with CLPT being short term and over before they were commissioned.
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Post by dave1 on Feb 9, 2017 12:48:23 GMT
I have seen mention of these switches but I was under the impression that they were remotely controlled by the operating side but I could be wrong. As far as I am aware they are on the upgraded lines. I noticed something recently on line mention of red lights connected with when traction current is switched off but these were not the normal ones known as a rail gap indicator I will see if I can find the reference.
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Post by railtechnician on Feb 9, 2017 20:56:03 GMT
I have seen mention of these switches but I was under the impression that they were remotely controlled by the operating side but I could be wrong. As far as I am aware they are on the upgraded lines. I noticed something recently on line mention of red lights connected with when traction current is switched off but these were not the normal ones known as a rail gap indicator I will see if I can find the reference. That would be helpful, thank you.
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Post by dave1 on Feb 10, 2017 15:24:29 GMT
I have seen mention of these switches but I was under the impression that they were remotely controlled by the operating side but I could be wrong. As far as I am aware they are on the upgraded lines. I noticed something recently on line mention of red lights connected with when traction current is switched off but these were not the normal ones known as a rail gap indicator I will see if I can find the reference. That would be helpful, thank you. I have found the photo re the traction current being off. It is at Marble Arch don't know if other locations have been done.
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Post by railtechnician on Feb 10, 2017 16:47:04 GMT
Interesting, a shame that the photo is not clear enough to see the detail. If you come across any more info I would be happy to see it.
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Post by dave1 on Feb 10, 2017 18:56:44 GMT
Interesting, a shame that the photo is not clear enough to see the detail. If you come across any more info I would be happy to see it. It is a shame about the quality of the photo, what I can make out is there is the code for Marble Arch and a arrow on each sign I am hoping to be in the area soon so I will check it out and try to get a clearer photo.
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Post by railtechnician on Feb 11, 2017 10:56:55 GMT
Interesting, a shame that the photo is not clear enough to see the detail. If you come across any more info I would be happy to see it. It is a shame about the quality of the photo, what I can make out is there is the code for Marble Arch and a arrow on each sign I am hoping to be in the area soon so I will check it out and try to get a clearer photo. That would be handy. I could see that the red aspects were for each route and it looks as though the remotely controlled section switch is visible beyond the crossover for the diverging route. The red aspects may not be called RGIs but that is obviously what they indicate. The one problem being 'out of the loop' for more than a decade is that the railway I knew is disappearing fast and as I discovered in a chat with a former colleague yesterday those few of my colleagues still around at the sharp end after 20 years or more service are all looking to leave now as the whole job of signals and communications has almost all gone out to contract.
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Post by railtechnician on Feb 12, 2017 6:54:20 GMT
Following up it would appear that remotely controlled motorised section switches were/are installed on Central, Jubilee, Bakerloo, Victoria, Metropolitan lines under various projects so I presume that all lines have them now. It would appear that the reason for them was H&S and making electrocution less likely, as a result of the introduction of the 1989 EAW Act. However, depots have manually controlled section switches in similar enclosed cubicles and there have been changes to the overhead feeding arrangements in depots with new trolley units and feeder cubicles. There are pictures of all these items to be found online on the manufacturer website along with sundry other items such as the new current rail fuse mountings and equipment insulator mountings. According to what I have read the remotely controlled section switches are controlled from the power control room. This makes sense as they are not rated to be opened or closed when the traction current is on, i.e. the current has to be off first so I expect that the procedure for a service controller to isolate a section is to get the power controller to do it and presumably a possession controller would ask the service controller to make the arrangements in the same way.
There does seem to be an awful amount of new equipment on the railway these days, I suspect there will soon be nothing left of the systems etc that I knew and worked with for almost three decades.
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Post by dave1 on Feb 12, 2017 9:42:22 GMT
It is a shame about the quality of the photo, what I can make out is there is the code for Marble Arch and a arrow on each sign I am hoping to be in the area soon so I will check it out and try to get a clearer photo. That would be handy. I could see that the red aspects were for each route and it looks as though the remotely controlled section switch is visible beyond the crossover for the diverging route. The red aspects may not be called RGIs but that is obviously what they indicate. The one problem being 'out of the loop' for more than a decade is that the railway I knew is disappearing fast and as I discovered in a chat with a former colleague yesterday those few of my colleagues still around at the sharp end after 20 years or more service are all looking to leave now as the whole job of signals and communications has almost all gone out to contract. Due to an injury yesterday I am going to have to put off having a look but as soon as I can I will visit a few locations.
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Post by dave1 on Feb 12, 2017 9:50:14 GMT
Following up it would appear that remotely controlled motorised section switches were/are installed on Central, Jubilee, Bakerloo, Victoria, Metropolitan lines under various projects so I presume that all lines have them now. It would appear that the reason for them was H&S and making electrocution less likely, as a result of the introduction of the 1989 EAW Act. However, depots have manually controlled section switches in similar enclosed cubicles and there have been changes to the overhead feeding arrangements in depots with new trolley units and feeder cubicles. There are pictures of all these items to be found online on the manufacturer website along with sundry other items such as the new current rail fuse mountings and equipment insulator mountings. According to what I have read the remotely controlled section switches are controlled from the power control room. This makes sense as they are not rated to be opened or closed when the traction current is on, i.e. the current has to be off first so I expect that the procedure for a service controller to isolate a section is to get the power controller to do it and presumably a possession controller would ask the service controller to make the arrangements in the same way. There does seem to be an awful amount of new equipment on the railway these days, I suspect there will soon be nothing left of the systems etc that I knew and worked with for almost three decades. You beat me to it as I look for the various sites and found the same. If those switches don't work then the power control room would send someone? The operating must be happy then as they would not be involved as such. The procedures must have changed a lot then as LU staff always were hands on unlike NR staff, station staff I am referring to.
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Post by Nortube on Feb 14, 2017 0:09:31 GMT
The Northern line should have then installed by now (there was talk of doing that before I left). When I was cataloguing / checking all the switches on the line sometime in 2006/7, Highgate sidings already had two big yellow chunky ones for the two feeds from the substation. The rest of them around the depot were still the usual manual single blade types.
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Post by dave1 on Feb 14, 2017 17:01:19 GMT
The Northern line should have then installed by now (there was talk of doing that before I left). When I was cataloguing / checking all the switches on the line sometime in 2006/7, Highgate sidings already had two big yellow chunky ones for the two feeds from the substation. The rest of them around the depot were still the usual manual single blade types. Were there any special switches for such things as connecting two sections together and would these still be retained once they have upgraded a line.
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Post by Nortube on Feb 15, 2017 0:57:23 GMT
General info. Connecting (coupling) two traction current sections together was often possible via a (normally open) circuit breaker in the substation. Eg, if it was required to link the: Stockwell to Clapham Common SB traction current section and the Clapham Common to Balham traction current section together, all that’s necessary would be to close a circuit breaker in Clapham Common substation. This would now make one traction current section Stockwell to Balham SB. Whilst rarely done, coupling up traction current sections in this way means that there is flexibility in the event of a failure in the substation. A traction current section can be subdivided as necessary by the operation of section switches, whilst isolating switches can isolate a dead end track (e,g, siding) within the current section. Changeover switches can be used in some cases to provide an alternative feed to a section of track (e.g. middle platform, siding, etc.), usually by taking the feed from the other nearby traction current section. E.g. The middle platform at Morden is normally fed from the Morden to South Wimbledon NB traction current section, but it can be fed from the South Wimbledon to Morden traction current section just be reversing the coupling switch. Depots and groups of sidings had their own outside switches to isolate and couple-up sections (depot shed roads at Morden and Golders Green also had their own isolation as mentioned by RT). All the section switches / section isolating switches and changeover switches at ground level on the running line and in the depot / sidings were of the manually operated singe blade type – housed in vertical yellow ‘sentry’ boxes in the open or normally just mounted bare on the tunnel walls. The exception being the two motorised section switches previously mentioned in Highgate sidings. On reading through my notes, I’d forgotten that Morden had six manually operated “track isolators” (circuit breakers) on site around the depot and were at the start of the feed from the depot to the tracks. Golders Green depot had three. Morden depot was in a separate sectionalisation area to Morden, but the there was still provision to couple Morden depot to Morden, via two section switches (one for NB and one for SB). Presumably this would be done in conjunction with other isolations at Morden. The above is based as at eight years ago but, other than the change from manual to motorised operation of the switches, there has probably been little change to above arrangements see the Switch Types and Circuit Breakers book for general details: www.microlp.co.uk/Homea/books.html
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Post by railtechnician on Feb 17, 2017 16:37:03 GMT
The Northern line should have then installed by now (there was talk of doing that before I left). When I was cataloguing / checking all the switches on the line sometime in 2006/7, Highgate sidings already had two big yellow chunky ones for the two feeds from the substation. The rest of them around the depot were still the usual manual single blade types. Were there any special switches for such things as connecting two sections together and would these still be retained once they have upgraded a line. Dave, Track parallelling was required where one section might not be able to supply enough power for all the trains on that section, East Acton on the Central and Hounslow on the Picc spring to mind. In these cases E/B and W/B roads were normally coupled together due to the lengths of the adjacent traction sections. Such required additional tunnel telephone circuitry found in the TP huts at those sites such that a T/T operation on either road would trip the traction coupling CB as well as the affected traction section CB without taking out the traction CB to the other road. You may be wondering about T/T in those areas because the greatest parts of the traction sections are in the open but there is enough tunnel (only needs to be a trains length and can be a short as the width of an overbridge!) to require T/T on these very long traction sections. I am particularly familiar with East Acton TP hut which is on the EB platform as I ran the new T/T cables from Wood Lane to the new Park Royal S/S when we were cutting out Old Oak Common SS under the CLP. Of course later Hounslow was part of my regular signal and comms maintenance area as a Picc TO. My understanding is that track parallelling would remain a feature of traction supply distribution where long sections require it.
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Post by railtechnician on Feb 17, 2017 16:46:22 GMT
General info. Connecting (coupling) two traction current sections together was often possible via a (normally open) circuit breaker in the substation. Eg, if it was required to link the: Stockwell to Clapham Common SB traction current section and the Clapham Common to Balham traction current section together, all that’s necessary would be to close a circuit breaker in Clapham Common substation. This would now make one traction current section Stockwell to Balham SB. Whilst rarely done, coupling up traction current sections in this way means that there is flexibility in the event of a failure in the substation. A traction current section can be subdivided as necessary by the operation of section switches, whilst isolating switches can isolate a dead end track (e,g, siding) within the current section. Changeover switches can be used in some cases to provide an alternative feed to a section of track (e.g. middle platform, siding, etc.), usually by taking the feed from the other nearby traction current section. E.g. The middle platform at Morden is normally fed from the Morden to South Wimbledon NB traction current section, but it can be fed from the South Wimbledon to Morden traction current section just be reversing the coupling switch. Depots and groups of sidings had their own outside switches to isolate and couple-up sections (depot shed roads at Morden and Golders Green also had their own isolation as mentioned by RT). All the section switches / section isolating switches and changeover switches at ground level on the running line and in the depot / sidings were of the manually operated singe blade type – housed in vertical yellow ‘sentry’ boxes in the open or normally just mounted bare on the tunnel walls. The exception being the two motorised section switches previously mentioned in Highgate sidings. On reading through my notes, I’d forgotten that Morden had six manually operated “track isolators” (circuit breakers) on site around the depot and were at the start of the feed from the depot to the tracks. Golders Green depot had three. Morden depot was in a separate sectionalisation area to Morden, but the there was still provision to couple Morden depot to Morden, via two section switches (one for NB and one for SB). Presumably this would be done in conjunction with other isolations at Morden. The above is based as at eight years ago but, other than the change from manual to motorised operation of the switches, there has probably been little change to above arrangements see the Switch Types and Circuit Breakers book for general details: www.microlp.co.uk/Homea/books.htmlAs you suggest, coupling adjacent traction sections on the same road is a rare event, there is no special T/T provision for such coupling so a T/T operation on the coupled sections would only trip the CBs for the one affected section as there is no coupling of T/T circuitry to trip out both sections.
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