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Post by GentlemanJim on Sept 18, 2014 11:05:45 GMT
Locking arrangement at Epping
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Post by hellocontrol on Sept 18, 2014 12:05:54 GMT
GJ Many thanks for this, have you any more signal boxes? The one thing that has puzzeled me is that Epping & Debden frames were N2M there was also the proposed frame for Edgware, some say that there were plans to remotely control the frames at some time but where would they have been controlled from? We all know that the plan was for all areas to be controlled form a central point but these frames seem the exception for whatever reason.
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Post by GentlemanJim on Sept 18, 2014 14:19:34 GMT
GJ Many thanks for this, have you any more signal boxes? The one thing that has puzzeled me is that Epping & Debden frames were N2M there was also the proposed frame for Edgware, some say that there were plans to remotely control the frames at some time but where would they have been controlled from? We all know that the plan was for all areas to be controlled form a central point but these frames seem the exception for whatever reason. I've got loads of Signal Box pictures but only this locking diagram for Epping. When we discovered the Frame had been removed I set about getting another one (which I did) and the original locking diagram which should come in useful one day. Controlling Epping and Debden at Loughton after the Yards closed would have been quite easily done from a Push Button panel similar to White City taking control of Ealing Broadway and North Acton Jctn. although White City did have Push-Pull for North Acton. Interestingly though, EPP & DEB panels went in to Loughton Cabin for a short while until that to succumbed and control went to Wood Lane. As we all know, LU tried to close the Epping-Ongar branch in the 80's but couldn't, that problem remained until 94' but by then modernisation was making great strides toward Epping. I'd assume that neither the will or money was available to do the conversion in the early years so the status quo remained until final closure on the introduction of ATP.
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Post by hellocontrol on Sept 18, 2014 15:28:47 GMT
I see yes as the original frame was removed those drawings will come in very handy in the future. I forgot that when the new signalling came in both Epping & Debden went to Loughton so like you say that would have probably have happened if things went like they did.
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Post by railtechnician on Sept 18, 2014 17:20:02 GMT
A shame that the locking chart is too small to read, is there a reason that it has been resized so small (800x600)?
I wonder if an N2 frame at Epping was originally intended to be remotely controlled locally from a pushbutton desk as Ealing Broadway was from the room above the cabin/IMR. I have never been quite sure what the rationale for that arrangement was. At sites like Farringdon and Wembley Park with an IMR having a V style frame is it obvious that a remote panel in the cabin made sense but I've never understood the reason for the local pushbutton control of Ealing Broadway when the signal operator could have simply 'worked the frame' as happened as Baker Street, Queen's Park and so many other places. The only reason that I can see for such local pushbutton control is preparation for centralisation in that all the necessary remote control facilities were in put in place such that control could be easily relocated. When I think about it that was the principle that we used on the Bakerloo when signalling control was centralised to Baker Street Command and Control Room. On that job SPTs were my main focus, initially we installed new local SPT systems to the five cabins i.e. TBUs (concentrators), TAUs (answering units) and OCPs (panels) were installed at each site. Subsequently I installed five TAUs in Baker Street CER and five OCPs on the signal operator desk in the control room. On changeover night it was simply a matter of pulling fuses for the existing TAUs at each site and installing fuses to reconnect each site TBU to the appropriate TAU at Baker Street. This being far easier than what I had to do at Chancery Lane on a single Friday night shift - move a whole CER down the platform to an empty room using all the existing equipment and diverting all the existing cables as part of Central line resignalling enabling works!
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Post by GentlemanJim on Sept 18, 2014 17:48:16 GMT
A shame that the locking chart is too small to read, is there a reason that it has been resized so small (800x600)? I wonder if an N2 frame at Epping was originally intended to be remotely controlled locally from a pushbutton desk as Ealing Broadway was from the room above the cabin/IMR. I have never been quite sure what the rationale for that arrangement was. At sites like Farringdon and Wembley Park with an IMR having a V style frame is it obvious that a remote panel in the cabin made sense but I've never understood the reason for the local pushbutton control of Ealing Broadway when the signal operator could have simply 'worked the frame' as happened as Baker Street, Queen's Park and so many other places. The only reason that I can see for such local pushbutton control is preparation for centralisation in that all the necessary remote control facilities were in put in place such that control could be easily relocated. When I think about it that was the principle that we used on the Bakerloo when signalling control was centralised to Baker Street Command and Control Room. On that job SPTs were my main focus, initially we installed new local SPT systems to the five cabins i.e. TBUs (concentrators), TAUs (answering units) and OCPs (panels) were installed at each site. Subsequently I installed five TAUs in Baker Street CER and five OCPs on the signal operator desk in the control room. On changeover night it was simply a matter of pulling fuses for the existing TAUs at each site and installing fuses to reconnect each site TBU to the appropriate TAU at Baker Street. This being far easier than what I had to do at Chancery Lane on a single Friday night shift - move a whole CER down the platform to an empty room using all the existing equipment and diverting all the existing cables as part of Central line resignalling enabling works! Limited to size we can post on here, which one is it you want to see larger, 1, 2 or 3?
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Post by hellocontrol on Sept 18, 2014 17:54:40 GMT
RT wants the locking chart.
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Post by hellocontrol on Sept 18, 2014 17:59:00 GMT
A shame that the locking chart is too small to read, is there a reason that it has been resized so small (800x600)? I wonder if an N2 frame at Epping was originally intended to be remotely controlled locally from a pushbutton desk as Ealing Broadway was from the room above the cabin/IMR. I have never been quite sure what the rationale for that arrangement was. At sites like Farringdon and Wembley Park with an IMR having a V style frame is it obvious that a remote panel in the cabin made sense but I've never understood the reason for the local pushbutton control of Ealing Broadway when the signal operator could have simply 'worked the frame' as happened as Baker Street, Queen's Park and so many other places. The only reason that I can see for such local pushbutton control is preparation for centralisation in that all the necessary remote control facilities were in put in place such that control could be easily relocated. When I think about it that was the principle that we used on the Bakerloo when signalling control was centralised to Baker Street Command and Control Room. On that job SPTs were my main focus, initially we installed new local SPT systems to the five cabins i.e. TBUs (concentrators), TAUs (answering units) and OCPs (panels) were installed at each site. Subsequently I installed five TAUs in Baker Street CER and five OCPs on the signal operator desk in the control room. On changeover night it was simply a matter of pulling fuses for the existing TAUs at each site and installing fuses to reconnect each site TBU to the appropriate TAU at Baker Street. This being far easier than what I had to do at Chancery Lane on a single Friday night shift - move a whole CER down the platform to an empty room using all the existing equipment and diverting all the existing cables as part of Central line resignalling enabling works! RT when Wembley got the push button desk there was a frame next door it was part of the original L frame which had been relocked and then called an N frame. I think Ealing Bdy was the first PB desk so in a way the trial run, I have heard some people say they were going to be all over the network but that never happened although quite a few desks were brought in and I think there are 3 remaining Amersham/Barking/Upminster unless these have gone.
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Post by railtechnician on Sept 18, 2014 18:04:40 GMT
A shame that the locking chart is too small to read, is there a reason that it has been resized so small (800x600)? I wonder if an N2 frame at Epping was originally intended to be remotely controlled locally from a pushbutton desk as Ealing Broadway was from the room above the cabin/IMR. I have never been quite sure what the rationale for that arrangement was. At sites like Farringdon and Wembley Park with an IMR having a V style frame is it obvious that a remote panel in the cabin made sense but I've never understood the reason for the local pushbutton control of Ealing Broadway when the signal operator could have simply 'worked the frame' as happened as Baker Street, Queen's Park and so many other places. The only reason that I can see for such local pushbutton control is preparation for centralisation in that all the necessary remote control facilities were in put in place such that control could be easily relocated. When I think about it that was the principle that we used on the Bakerloo when signalling control was centralised to Baker Street Command and Control Room. On that job SPTs were my main focus, initially we installed new local SPT systems to the five cabins i.e. TBUs (concentrators), TAUs (answering units) and OCPs (panels) were installed at each site. Subsequently I installed five TAUs in Baker Street CER and five OCPs on the signal operator desk in the control room. On changeover night it was simply a matter of pulling fuses for the existing TAUs at each site and installing fuses to reconnect each site TBU to the appropriate TAU at Baker Street. This being far easier than what I had to do at Chancery Lane on a single Friday night shift - move a whole CER down the platform to an empty room using all the existing equipment and diverting all the existing cables as part of Central line resignalling enabling works! Limited to size we can post on here, which one is it you want to see larger, 1, 2 or 3? All the images are at 72dpi image 1 is 3014x2157 pixels image 2 is 2292x3167 pixels image 3 is 800x600 pixels I'd like to see 3 at the same pixel size as the larger of the other two images i.e. 3000x2250 or thereabouts if possible
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Post by GentlemanJim on Sept 18, 2014 19:46:27 GMT
Limited to size we can post on here, which one is it you want to see larger, 1, 2 or 3? All the images are at 72dpi image 1 is 3014x2157 pixels image 2 is 2292x3167 pixels image 3 is 800x600 pixels I'd like to see 3 at the same pixel size as the larger of the other two images i.e. 3000x2250 or thereabouts if possible Try this. Attachments:
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Post by railtechnician on Sept 18, 2014 20:10:21 GMT
Yes that is much better, I can read the locking now.
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Post by railtechnician on Sept 18, 2014 20:42:04 GMT
RT when Wembley got the push button desk there was a frame next door it was part of the original L frame which had been relocked and then called an N frame. I think Ealing Bdy was the first PB desk so in a way the trial run, I have heard some people say they were going to be all over the network but that never happened although quite a few desks were brought in and I think there are 3 remaining Amersham/Barking/Upminster unless these have gone. I never cease to be amazed at the many LT/LU plans that never bore fruit. I have little doubt that when Earls Court control room opened it was intended for it to Control the entire Picc and District.
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Post by GentlemanJim on Sept 19, 2014 12:30:00 GMT
I've had my eyes opened a bit with this thread. How does Epping being an N2M Frame differ from other Frames, what made it a candidate for remote operation? I know how Frames work from the Operating side but the teccy. stuff is beyond me. The Locking Charts might well have been written in Chinese as 99% of the information means nothing to me and in all probability to many others. My previous job before returning to the LU fold was operating a Thames Water Pumping Station, it was converted from steam power in the early 60's with the intention for remote operation. The equipment was in there but never used, much like a lot of the LT 'modernisation' it would seem. Triple expansion steam engine. Wanstead Pumping Station. Attachments:
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Post by hellocontrol on Sept 19, 2014 13:35:25 GMT
The locking sheet apart from some other stuff is about Dogs and Cats, you should see what a Central book wiring book is like and the other lines since the Central I suspect I either just as bad or even worse.
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Post by GentlemanJim on Sept 19, 2014 14:20:26 GMT
The locking sheet apart from some other stuff is about Dogs and Cats, you should see what a Central book wiring book is like and the other lines since the Central I suspect I either just as bad or even worse. I recall something about 'dogs' are they the little catches on the slide bars.......
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