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Post by Seven Kings Kid on Aug 18, 2013 0:12:51 GMT
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 18, 2013 7:11:12 GMT
Nice pictures of a site I haven't worked at in more than 30 years!
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Post by GentlemanJim on Aug 18, 2013 9:40:12 GMT
Nice clear pictures and a bit of history working with the modern stuff. |
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drico
Station Inspector
Thank you driver, off clips.
Posts: 202
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Post by drico on Aug 18, 2013 16:08:44 GMT
Yes nice photos, just one issue lever number 11 is blue and the plate says rear cab clear working, is this unique to this site ?
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Post by Nortube on Aug 18, 2013 16:46:22 GMT
I think it's unique on the Northern line, I don't know about other lines. The wrong road starter cannot be cleared until the plunger has been pressed by the driver. The usual idea being if stepping-back is on operation it proves the incoming driver has got out of the train and it's OK for the outgoing driver to depart. The Signalman can do the equivalent from a push button at Cobourg St. or the Signalman can do it on site on the frame. Originally I thought that reversing the lever put in automatic reversing (something that stuck in my mind from a long while ago) but I may be wrong. However, if all trains are being reversed S-N at Charing Cross, it may be that 11 lever can be reversed and left reversed instead of normalising it after each reversing move.
Other than depot plungers, the only other place to have a plunger is Stockwell NB (if it is still in operation). This is a 'Train ready to depart' plunger on the north headwall of the SB platform is used when reversing S-N to let the signalman know the that the driver is ready to proceed when reversing. As it is only an indicator, there is no lever on the frame at Stockwell.
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drico
Station Inspector
Thank you driver, off clips.
Posts: 202
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Post by drico on Aug 18, 2013 17:12:31 GMT
Thanks for the reply, my first thought was that 11 lever was a king lever as its blue, but then noticed that 4 lever and 5 lever were in reverse.
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Post by hellocontrol on Aug 19, 2013 10:58:03 GMT
Thanks for the reply, my first thought was that 11 lever was a king lever as its blue, but then noticed that 4 lever and 5 lever were in reverse. When the frame was commissioned 1951 11 lever was shown as a king lever this alter I believe when Leicester Square/Cobourg Street took over although at the Elelphant there was no lever for rear cab clear just a switch on the frame. |
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Post by WLX568 on Aug 19, 2013 22:12:53 GMT
I think it's unique on the Northern line, I don't know about other lines. The wrong road starter cannot be cleared until the plunger has been pressed by the driver. The usual idea being if stepping-back is on operation it proves the incoming driver has got out of the train and it's OK for the outgoing driver to depart. The Signalman can do the equivalent from a push button at Cobourg St. or the Signalman can do it on site on the frame. Originally I thought that reversing the lever put in automatic reversing (something that stuck in my mind from a long while ago) but I may be wrong. However, if all trains are being reversed S-N at Charing Cross, it may be that 11 lever can be reversed and left reversed instead of normalising it after each reversing move. Other than depot plungers, the only other place to have a plunger is Stockwell NB (if it is still in operation). This is a 'Train ready to depart' plunger on the north headwall of the SB platform is used when reversing S-N to let the signalman know the that the driver is ready to proceed when reversing. As it is only an indicator, there is no lever on the frame at Stockwell. I wonder if the position of 11 lever has an effect to add or remove the RCC plunger from the wrong road starter's control? Say perhaps, lever normal, plunger not needed to clear the signal and when lever reverse plunger needed. |
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Post by hellocontrol on Aug 20, 2013 7:59:12 GMT
I think it's unique on the Northern line, I don't know about other lines. The wrong road starter cannot be cleared until the plunger has been pressed by the driver. The usual idea being if stepping-back is on operation it proves the incoming driver has got out of the train and it's OK for the outgoing driver to depart. The Signalman can do the equivalent from a push button at Cobourg St. or the Signalman can do it on site on the frame. Originally I thought that reversing the lever put in automatic reversing (something that stuck in my mind from a long while ago) but I may be wrong. However, if all trains are being reversed S-N at Charing Cross, it may be that 11 lever can be reversed and left reversed instead of normalising it after each reversing move. Other than depot plungers, the only other place to have a plunger is Stockwell NB (if it is still in operation). This is a 'Train ready to depart' plunger on the north headwall of the SB platform is used when reversing S-N to let the signalman know the that the driver is ready to proceed when reversing. As it is only an indicator, there is no lever on the frame at Stockwell. I wonder if the position of 11 lever has an effect to add or remove the RCC plunger from the wrong road starter's control? Say perhaps, lever normal, plunger not needed to clear the signal and when lever reverse plunger needed. That's exactly it if working the frame manually if the frame was working automatically and they were reversing using the RCC 11 lever would be reversed. |
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 20, 2013 8:17:16 GMT
I think it's unique on the Northern line, I don't know about other lines. The wrong road starter cannot be cleared until the plunger has been pressed by the driver. The usual idea being if stepping-back is on operation it proves the incoming driver has got out of the train and it's OK for the outgoing driver to depart. The Signalman can do the equivalent from a push button at Cobourg St. or the Signalman can do it on site on the frame. Originally I thought that reversing the lever put in automatic reversing (something that stuck in my mind from a long while ago) but I may be wrong. However, if all trains are being reversed S-N at Charing Cross, it may be that 11 lever can be reversed and left reversed instead of normalising it after each reversing move. Other than depot plungers, the only other place to have a plunger is Stockwell NB (if it is still in operation). This is a 'Train ready to depart' plunger on the north headwall of the SB platform is used when reversing S-N to let the signalman know the that the driver is ready to proceed when reversing. As it is only an indicator, there is no lever on the frame at Stockwell. I wonder if the position of 11 lever has an effect to add or remove the RCC plunger from the wrong road starter's control? Say perhaps, lever normal, plunger not needed to clear the signal and when lever reverse plunger needed. I'd have thought that 'rear car clear' was a reference to the position of the train, i.e. that the delta BC track had picked indicating the rear of the train had cleared the crossover before allowing the point locking to be released enabling the points to be reversed for the facing move. In modern (V) circuitry a lever would not be required for that as the delta track would be in the point control circuitry usually via a UCLR but Strand was/is older circuitry. Blue of course is the correct colour for a facing point lock lever although LT/LU used it for King levers. |
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Post by Nortube on Aug 20, 2013 10:46:49 GMT
Digging into it a bit deeper, my understanding is that Charing Cross works like this:
The wrong road starter (C4) needs the RCC plunger to be operated or 11 lever reversed before it can be cleared.
In normal working, with through running, lever 11 is normal. The relevant signal levers for through running are reversed.
When Charing Cross is being worked manually, either from Cobourg St or on site, operation of the RCC or the Signalman at Cobourg St pressing the RCC button on their desk will reverse 11 lever. This allows C4 to be cleared.
I’m assuming that 11 lever returns to normal after the train has departed and the RCC plunger or button has to be pressed each time the train is reversed. There is no difference in operation whether the frame is being worked manually on site r via Cobourg Street.
Other than during booked reversing during engineering work etc., there is unlikely to be stepping-back when reversing at CX. The driver that brings the train into the platform will be the same one that takes the train out. The RCC plunger still has to be operated by the driver, although there may be circumstances, such as when that train will be the next NB train, where the Signalman decides to press the button at Cobourg St when they reverse the crossover and the driver gets out of the train to find the wrong road starter already cleared.
As far as I’m aware, the only purpose of the RCC plunger at CX is to ensure that the driver has got out of the rear cab. As RT says, it could be used to prove that the rear of the train has cleared the crossover, but I don’t think that this is the reason in this case.
In a similar way, later stock (from 72 (and possibly 67) stock) had a rear cab occupied indication in the leading cab. This showed if the rear cab was opened up, thus a driver getting in the cab at the other end (whether at a terminus or stepping-back during reversing etc.) would be aware that the driver was still in the rear cab. (On earlier stocks, one of the more rudimentary indications that the rear cab was opened up would be an audible warning when the driver opened the front DBVIC if the rear DBVIC was still open).
Of course, the absence of a rear cab not being occupied didn’t mean that the driver was off the train and many a 72 stock driver has been trapped on the train when they’ve been a bit slow getting out of the cab (no cab doors on 72 stock) at a terminus!
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drico
Station Inspector
Thank you driver, off clips.
Posts: 202
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Post by drico on Aug 20, 2013 10:47:55 GMT
RCC is Rear CAB clear.
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 20, 2013 14:22:21 GMT
Yep I can see that on closer examination of the blown up photo. I've never encountered such a circuit AFAIR, I'd love to see the prints for 4G, 5W and 11 RCC ! |
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Jim
Box Boy
Posts: 48
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Post by Jim on Aug 31, 2013 6:43:50 GMT
It looks surprisingly clean. I would expect a rarely used room on a tube tunnel platform to be caked in brake dust.
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Post by Nortube on Sept 1, 2013 10:26:49 GMT
The IMR / relay room is adjacent to it (the air con that can be partly seen on the wall is in the IMR / relay room). Because of the nature of the equipment, especially when there is an interlocking frame involved (such as in an IMR) means it's preferable to keep these places as dirt and dust free as possible and they are usually sealed to a certain extent. Many of the IMRs were fitted into existing spaces and can be very cramped. Even those that were purpose built can be very cramped. There is a lot of equipment in them, mostly electrical and much of it with live connections, with barely enough space to walk between the racks. Not the best sort of place to be wandering around with a feather duster  |
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